The lost art of the Low Post Game

[Coriolis]

Originally Posted by DaDakota No doubt, the rules really screwed the low post players. DD

Forgive my ignorance, but how do current rules punish low-post players?

[apollo33]

Originally Posted by Carl Herrera No worries, Motiejunas is coming to save the low post game, y'all.

I see him shooting more threes and play like Barg Nani than a real low post player

Maybe Jonas Valanciunas will come and save it

[OlajuwonFan81]

Originally Posted by apollo33 I see him shooting more threes and play like Barg Nani than a real low post player Maybe Jonas Valanciunas will come and save it

After watching summer league I think he can do both. The guy is very skilled.....I think he might not be dominant inside but still be effective like a scola type.

[Rockets_4_life]

Originally Posted by apollo33 I see him shooting more threes and play like Barg Nani than a real low post player Maybe Jonas Valanciunas will come and save it

Don't mean to be rude, but Motiejunas is light years ahead of Valanciunas in the post.

Hate to post this again.. but just look at his footwork and agility....

[plutoblue11]

Honestly, I do think alot of players have post games, but mostly in the form of forwards, shooting guardans, and stocky point guards. Still, as far as centers go, like I've said earlier, I honestly believe the players just aren't as good as they used. Centers nowadays aren't even as skilled as say Wilt, Russell, or Walton and that was nearly 40 years ago. There's no center in the league right now that compares favorably to the best centers from the 60s to 90s, outside of Dwight Howard and he has very inferior post game.

The players just aren't as skilled, I believe its just an American thing, because we've seen Yao Ming, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol who are very well-rounded players. You do have players, like Andrew Bynum and DeMarcus Cousins, but that's about it. I also don't think it is a lack of college experience or seasoned nature. I hate saying this, but honestly don't think some of these youngsters are all that passionate about the game. That's the one thing I see there's too many avenues out there where a center can improve his post game in the offseason. Look how many ex-players or coaches were fantastic post players in their careers.

[bro2044]

Originally Posted by ShiniKashi The game is evolving. Just got to deal with it. Al Jefferson has some low post game

agreed... one of the only players in the entire league that does, and the only one I was going to mention.

[jbasket]

Lebron in the finals seemed to revitalize the low post. Abused the Celtics and Okc all series. Like I said before, he is a nightmare in the post.

[mdrowe00]

Originally Posted by Coriolis Forgive my ignorance, but how do current rules punish low-post players?

I don't know how much of what you're asking is ignorance, Coriolis...
...but I personally don't think the league's current guard-centric-offensive rule-focus is what's punishing deteriorating low-post play.

Not as much as not being able, as a big man, to be a credible THREAT from the post.

A lot of the officiating has benefitted perimeter players over the last dozen or so years, but even in Hakeem Olajuwon's hey-day, there was still a league-full of terrific perimeter players who were considered stars. There are a lot of factors that have conspired to erode the basic benefit of having a size advantage (or, more specifically, using a size advantage effectively)...

...but what tends to happen more often than not, from my perspective, is that because big guys are always going to be held at an overestimated premium, on average (since you can't teach height, and anybody 7' tall with a pulse qualifies as an NBA big man nowadays), they are often drafted into the NBA long before they're ready to be effective players.

The basketball culture in America has shifted dramatically from one of development and growth, to sensationalism and hyperbole. The game, at its most basic and fundamental levels, are hardly being emphasized...much less being taught...especially at the primary and secondary education levels. If anybody in high school or college bothers to stick around past a semester(or even bothers going to school), they certainly aren't given any instruction on how to play the game from their desired position...and that's assuming that anybody would be receptive to any kind of instruction in the first place, the way most guys egos are.

Hakeem Olajuwon didn't even know what a basketball was until he was 14 or 15 years old. He picked up the game ridiculously late...but Hakeem benefitted from a 3-year collegiate career, where he was actually coached and taught the game by Guy V. Lewis.

So much of what a player becomes is dependent on his own drive and desire that sometimes, it's almost underestimated how much good it does even the most talented individual players to have strong coaching and instruction...and the sooner, the better. It's getting so that even the beloved Coach Mike Krzyzewski is having problems keeping kids in school past their 18th birthday.

I don't have a particular problem with any young player wanting to forego the "boredom" of academia in order to maximize his earning potential in an extremely accelerated window of prime earning. But for every Kyrie Irving that leaves school early or Dwight Howard who foregoes college altogether...there are three times as many kids who do the exact same thing and aren't anywhere near as good as they may think they are...and their careers are effectively over in three years.

Add to that the fact that big men generally take even long to develop than guards and small forwards...

...and I suppose it's no real surpise that nobody wants to wait around to see what a big man is going to do with his career.

[coachbadlee]

This will no longer be lost to the Rockets with the addition of Motiejunas, Patterson and Jones.

[Dr of Dunk]

Just watched this video - thought it had some relevance... sorta :

[vcchlw]

Scola has a great low post game. If he is athletic and has hops he will be a HOF in my opinion. Imagine Scola skills combined with Stoudemire's body...

[123Rockets]

Aldrigde, Kobe, Jefferson, Duncan, Scola have pretty good post games IMO

[Rocket River]

1. Guards are able to hack Big Guys to hell more - 9 out of 10 strips of big guy . . the smaller guy got a part of the hand.
2. 7 foot able to run the court for 15 minutes = you in the league - dudes are lazy
3. Zone Defensive


Still hate the defensive 3 seconds
you allow zones to protect all offense no defense people
but
install defensive 3 second to reduce the effectiveness of n elite low post defender


Rocket River

[jocar]

Dwight being the best center in the league speaks volumes. Low post finesse is becoming extinct. It will probably die with Duncan. Nevermind, he's not the same guy anymore... it died with Yao.

[crash5179]

Originally Posted by apollo33 I see him shooting more threes and play like Barg Nani than a real low post player Maybe Jonas Valanciunas will come and save it

No way. Not saying he will never shoot threes but his strength is his post game.

[Arthurprescott2]

Garnett should be added to the list of current players with effective low post game.

[teebone21]

scola had the best ...

[Come_Again?!]

The post game is hard to master much less be efficient in. IMO this takes the most skill. The footwork, the awareness, the passing, the basketball IQ has got to be there. It's difficult to even go to the low post game cause you could just run another guy for a double team or flop your way out of it or just go zone.

I personally think it's easier to outrun your opponent and use your athleticism ( or beat him down the court) than to muscle him in. Much less its hard to ref low post play (ie Yao and you saw it with Dwight too).

[jimmyv281]

Where is Chucky Brown when you need him and his gold tooth.

[leebigez]

I think the lack of post game has a lot to do with what a lot of posters stated already,just like the lack of centers. Posting up and working on that skill is grunt work. So many of the young big guys now grew up watching dirk shoot jumpers. They viewed posting up as being limited offensively which isn't the case. Its also a lot easier to shoot from 20 ft vs working steps down low and scoring. Also, guys aren't staying and refining their game in college. In fact, go down to high school and watch the aau circuit of ball. They play so much stree ball in those aau games, you can't walk in a gym and see guys working on their games from the post. I mean, even guys like dream and ewing who were consdered "raw" were a lot better in the post coming out of college than all these young guys. Anthony Davis has never played with his back to the basket in his life! Never. Even as a smaller player (6'4) I played in the post a lot growing up. In highschool, I played against guys like rich mcgyver and tremaine wingfield who were 6'8 and 6'6 and I still could post them up and score on the blocks. When I went to swt and played guard, I still posted a lot if they put a guy my size or smaller on me.

In the end,its just reps like anything else. When I read guys like amare and chandler are gonna work with dream, I kinda laugh. Why weren't they trying to work with dream and guys like that when they 1st got in the league? It used to be a writ of passage for every big to go to pete newell big man camp in hawaii before he passed. Even before he passed, you didn't see or hear of the young big attending his camp. Shaq and duncan were the last big names I remember hearing going to the camp. I still believe there is a place for post play, it just the lack of post players to exploit it.