Romney Offshore Claims are Nonsense.

[Rocketman1981]

As he has a net worth over $250 million, $8 million (less than 4% of his investments) are in investment funds that are based offshore.

Many funds are offshore to allow foreign investors and non-taxable investors like university endowments and large pension funds. If a US citizen invests in these funds, they still report their gains to the IRS and pay taxes on these gains.

Having offshore funds allow foreign investors access to US investing without having to pay taxes in the US and taxes in their home country.

To make this into a political issue is simply ignorant. Its being spun that he setup offshore tax shelter's etc when any gains in these investments are taxes to the full extent that if they were on-shore funds.

Again, appealing to the lowest denominators of thinking.

[Major]

That's true today, because the laws were made stricter. But it wasn't true in 2008 and before - back then, you could defer taxes to an extent by holding money abroad. Of course, since Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns for any of those years, people will make whatever conclusions they want.

[Rocketman1981]

Ultimately when those funds are re-patriated the taxes must be levied. There was the ability to not pay short-term (income rate) taxes on interest and dividends but thats a choice whether to be legal or not.

Like when you buy a watch and they say you avoid sales tax by having it mailed somewhere out of state. You're supposed to claim it and pay taxes but most people just don't.

But the media is making it seem that he setup offshore tax shelters for the purpose of getting out of paying taxes as opposed to having less than 4% of one's money in funds that are domiciled offshore. That is simply the case of ignorance and fear trumping logic.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Rocketman1981 Ultimately when those funds are re-patriated the taxes must be levied. There was the ability to not pay short-term (income rate) taxes on interest and dividends but thats a choice whether to be legal or not. Like when you buy a watch and they say you avoid sales tax by having it mailed somewhere out of state. You're supposed to claim it and pay taxes but most people just don't. But the media is making it seem that he setup offshore tax shelters for the purpose of getting out of paying taxes as opposed to having less than 4% of one's money in funds that are domiciled offshore. That is simply the case of ignorance and fear trumping logic.

Absolutely - though I don't know that the media is really making it out to be anything at this point. TPM is reporting the whole story, and they are a liberal source. It's one of those things that there isn't enough information on, and the media doesn't know all the details, so they are just reporting that he has money offshore.

I don't think this story will have much legs - but what it and the Bain story and the totally out of context "I like being able to fire people" quote all do is reinforce this notion that Romney is different from everyone else. He already has a problem connecting with people, and this just makes it worse. He looks like part of the "1%" that's disconnected from main street. If and when he releases his tax returns, it's just going to blow up again. If he wins SC and has the nomination wrapped up, he really needs to release all his tax returns ASAP and get the story out there so it's dead by November. If he doesn't, it's just going to be a ticking time bomb, and like this story, he's not going to be able to control the details or the storyline when stuff does come out.

[JuanValdez]

While I also don't think the offshore stuff is a big deal, it does play right into Obama's hands on the tax-the-rich angle. Romney is a tailor-made poster boy of the super rich paying a lower effective tax rate than the common man despite the progressive income tax. Maybe all his taxes are on the up-and-up, but his tax returns put a spot light on a tax system that favors the rich. I think it's a big liability for him because he can't disassociate himself from that tax debate (and his "you're just jealous!" defense isn't doing him any favors either).

So, at least he's not a crook, but the tax system is.

[Major]

Originally Posted by JuanValdez While I also don't think the offshore stuff is a big deal, it does play right into Obama's hands on the tax-the-rich angle. Romney is a tailor-made poster boy of the super rich paying a lower effective tax rate than the common man despite the progressive income tax. Maybe all his taxes are on the up-and-up, but his tax returns put a spot light on a tax system that favors the rich. I think it's a big liability for him because he can't disassociate himself from that tax debate (and his "you're just jealous!" defense isn't doing him any favors either). So, at least he's not a crook, but the tax system is.

Exactly. Obama is going to be saying "raise high end tax rates and eliminate loopholes - tax rich people like me MORE." Romney's going to be saying "cut capital gains taxes - tax rich people like me who already pay low taxes even LESS." There's no way that's going to play well in public.

[Qball]

Originally Posted by JuanValdez Romney is a tailor-made poster boy of the super rich paying a lower effective tax rate than the common man despite the progressive income tax.

This is the most dangerous thing about Romney. The incomne disparity in this country would increase even faster under him.

There's 2 schools on thought on this (in layman's terms). One, that people who are "poor" just didn't get the opportunities "rich" people did (i.e. it's more the system's fault). Other, that people who are "poor" did get the same opportunities but are just lazy (it's more the person's fault). Of course there's a spectrum. Only a scale from 0 to 10 (with 5 being 50/50 on schools of thought), Romney is an 8 or 9 while Obama is a 3 or 4.

[KingCheetah]

So Romney has a massive amount of offshore wealth -- good to know -- thanks for posting.

[thadeus]

It be fantastic if he got mugged for all of it (because you know that he carries it all around in his pockets).

[Pushkin]

Originally Posted by JuanValdez While I also don't think the offshore stuff is a big deal, it does play right into Obama's hands on the tax-the-rich angle. Romney is a tailor-made poster boy of the super rich paying a lower effective tax rate than the common man despite the progressive income tax. Maybe all his taxes are on the up-and-up, but his tax returns put a spot light on a tax system that favors the rich. I think it's a big liability for him because he can't disassociate himself from that tax debate (and his "you're just jealous!" defense isn't doing him any favors either). So, at least he's not a crook, but the tax system is.

He also opposes reforming the personal tax code. He is an example of why we should reform the tax code (not just raise rates and let the powerful create more loopholes). I am sure some of the income is still carried interest from the Bain days.

[Cohete Rojo]

Originally Posted by Qball This is the most dangerous thing about Romney. The incomne disparity in this country would increase even faster under him. There's 2 schools on thought on this (in layman's terms). One, that people who are "poor" just didn't get the opportunities "rich" people did (i.e. it's more the system's fault). Other, that people who are "poor" did get the same opportunities but are just lazy (it's more the person's fault). Of course there's a spectrum. Only a scale from 0 to 10 (with 5 being 50/50 on schools of thought), Romney is an 8 or 9 while Obama is a 3 or 4.

The retired population would benefit from reduced capital gains taxes since this is where a lot of retirement investments are locked up. That being said, it is a good angle for Romney to play: pander to the retired for the gain of the bourgeoisie-do-nothing-inherited-wealth crowd, or the made-so-much-money-at-places-like-Bane-Capital-flipping-investments-I-don't-know-where-to-put-all-my-money crowd, or the I-am-so-out-of-touch-with-most-Americans-I-think-most-people-earn-their-income-through-capital-gains-and-not-hourly-or-salaried-work crowd.

Either way it's a win-win.

And up until this thread I had never heard anything about this issue. I am starting to believe the OP is a troll. 2 speeding tickets for going 90+ mph and a Mit Romney defense thread?

[thadeus]

Romney is a piece of **** who was born wealthy, given every single advantage of being born wealthy, and to this day has no idea how the rest of the country lives.

He's terminally disconnected from the people he's trying to "represent" and it comes out in his gaffes and weird moments. You can really see how completely clueless he is about the lives of his constituents.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Cohete Rojo The retired population would benefit from reduced capital gains taxes

15% is too much?


The offshore money is example of how American tax laws are written by and for the benefit of, the ultra-wealthy. The average working guy has no access to these advantages. It favors passive investment income as somehow more valuable than labor. And exemplifies the fact that Romney would continue and increase the advantage.

[Rocketman1981]

Actually Dubious offhshore funds are mainly accessed by institutional investors including large retirement systems, pension plans and university endowments. All of which benefit a multitude of society.

As those entities are non-taxable entities they prefer investing in offshore funds which don't force them to pay some taxes on areas in which they are exempt.

I think most offshore funds have more institutional investors that represent pools of middle/lower class people than large ultra-wealthy investors.

Just my .02

[Rocketman1981]

Romney didn't inherit his money, he made it as the head of successful investment venture spinoff of a large consulting firm.

Yes his father was successful and a politician, but he earned his wealth.
In private equity you're bidding on companies so people don't care who you are and you've got to turn them around and sell them off to others.

He gained enormous wealth through hard work and savvy. Don't take that away from him.

[mc mark]

Originally Posted by Rocketman1981 He gained enormous wealth through hard work and savvy. Don't take that away from him.

He should have remained in the private sector.

[thadeus]

Originally Posted by Rocketman1981 He gained enormous wealth through hard work and savvy. Don't take that away from him.

He gained enormous wealth because he was born wealthy and given advantages and opportunities that only the wealthy have access to.

[mc mark]

Originally Posted by thadeus He gained enormous wealth because he was born wealthy and given advantages and opportunities that only the wealthy have access to.

Like Romney said, only rich people should run for office.

[Rocketman1981]

Originally Posted by mc mark Like Romney said, only rich people should run for office.

I respect that someone who has made a fortune and could retire and do nothing for the rest of their lives instead wants to help this country be better.

Its irrational how much hatred there is towards this.

Do we only want lifelong politicians in the White House?

[kyle_R]

Romney being rich is hardly the area people need to criticize him on. I don't think he has a shot in hell of winning the presidency and I wouldn't vote for him, but if someone gave me the opportunity to make $ doing what Romney did I wouldn't hesitate and I wouldn't have the guiltiest of consciousness.