Maldives close luxury resort spas under Islamist pressure

[Mathloom]

Originally Posted by R0ckets03 A bunch of brain washed Maldivians studying in madrasas in Saudi and Pakistain are not good for anyone.

I agree with what you're saying, but frankly I don't know to what extent that's really happening, and I don't really trust the article.

The country is almost completely Muslim and it's facing a massive war with the hotel industry which is essentially forcing politicians to decide between the will of the people and the money of the hotel industry. In addition, this is causing a massive illegal immigration problem.

They may want to get rid of spas, how does it affect me or you? What says they don't unban it if/when the problem is solved?

It's their own country. This is a country which is visited by massive numbers of extremely rich people on a daily basis, but leaves behind very little because most of those profits are redirected to the countries of the owners. The local population is quite poor, despite economic GDP "per capita" data indicating otherwise. The money created in Maldives doesn't necessarily stay in Maldives. If I were Maldivian and Muslim, why would I not be considering this? Think about it:

- I can't afford to go to the spas.
- I am probably religiously forbidden from going the the spas.
- Foreign companies are making massive profits thanks to our natural resources.
- There are few, if any, career advancement opportunities.
- Despite all this, the spas may be allowing prostitution to take place, and globally + historically we know such a setting to be one that is almost impossible to monitor fully without screwing the experience up.

So if they want to do this, good for them. While Maldives is on my list of potential honeymoon spots, I don't care if this ruins my travel plans.

If the article was titled "a significant number of Maldivians converting to radical Wahabiism" and it included any real data, I would be very concerned obviously. There are several stakeholders involved though, and the Telegraph is speaking on behalf of the stakeholders which it likes the most. Regardless of what the Telegraph says, the most important (and maybe only important) people who we should be focusing on is the Maldivian people or their representatives, from which we've heard nothing.

[Deckard]

How many industries do they have? Tourism and, I assume, fishing. While the fish doesn't care what faith you follow, or if you follow any at all (to the best of our knowledge... I haven't personally asked the fish), people who must spend a terrific amount of money just to get there expect to have a good time. If they want a massage while on their vacation, they don't expect to have that option closed to them due to a religious objection. There are plenty of other places that those people can go to in order to spend their money for pleasure. From what I've read of the Maldives, they desperately need tourism and the jobs tourism brings. The taxes to fund the government and government services. It is madness to throw it all away, in my opinion. Certainly, they (the elected government) can do so if that is their desire, but it is incredibly stupid. Don't think that this news won't be widespread in the tourism industry. And what is next? Forbid bikinis? Forbid single female tourists? Where do you stop? Give in to religious extremism, and you are on a slippery slope very quickly.

[Mathloom]

Just a general note:

Madrasa = school.

In Arabic, 99% of the use of the word madrasa means regular school.
In English, 99% of the use of the word madrasa means Islamic radicalization factory.

This is extremely annoying to Arabic speakers. It would be exactly the same if I took the word school, and started referring to extremist Christian or Jewish schools just using the word "schools".

Example: "Yes, they blew up the mosque. I've heard they go to American schools."

That sounds like the government of America has opened ideological radicalization schools, and they are so common that the short-hand "school" is used to refer to them.

There is also not a clear split between religious schools and non-religious schools in poor countries. This fact seems to escape a lot of "Westerners" because they are used to an education system built on enforcing secularism. Most schools, especially in this region, are at least somewhat religious, some more than others.

There are good Muslim schools. There are regular schools.
There are good Muslim madrasas. There are regular madrasas. Then there are extremist madrasas.
Most institutions in the world which call themselves madrasas are not affiliated to Islam.

What most "Westerners" refer to as madrasas is referred to as "Quran Learning School" in Dubai at least.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by Mathloom The country is almost completely Muslim and it's facing a massive war with the hotel industry which is essentially forcing politicians to decide between the will of the people and the money of the hotel industry.

"Massive war with the hotel industry"? The hotel industry is basically their largest source of income. Nobody enters into a "massive war" with their only source of income. As usual, overly dramatic choice of words anyway.

Originally Posted by Mathloom In addition, this is causing a massive illegal immigration problem.

What? What is causing an immigration problem?

Originally Posted by Mathloom They may want to get rid of spas, how does it affect me or you? What says they don't unban it if/when the problem is solved?

Are you seriously trying to defend this?

Originally Posted by Mathloom It's their own country. This is a country which is visited by massive numbers of extremely rich people on a daily basis, but leaves behind very little because most of those profits are redirected to the countries of the owners.

Complete nonsense, as usual.

Over 90% of government tax revenue flows in from import duties and tourism-related taxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Maldives

Originally Posted by Mathloom The local population is quite poor, despite economic GDP "per capita" data indicating otherwise. The money created in Maldives doesn't necessarily stay in Maldives.

See above. Over 90 % of government tax revenue comes from tourism.

Originally Posted by Mathloom If I were Maldivian and Muslim, why would I not be considering this?

Because it is freaking ridiculous?

Originally Posted by Mathloom Think about it: - I can't afford to go to the spas. - I am probably religiously forbidden from going the the spas. - Foreign companies are making massive profits thanks to our natural resources. - There are few, if any, career advancement opportunities. - Despite all this, the spas may be allowing prostitution to take place, and globally + historically we know such a setting to be one that is almost impossible to monitor fully without screwing the experience up.

Too dumb to comment on, really, but:

- If you can't afford to go, how does it even affect you.
- You aren't really religiously forbidden, unless you choose to follow some ridiculous interpretation of your religion.
- Over 90 % of tax revenue.
- The only career advancement opportunities come from tourism, the very industry this proposal damages.
- Completely hypothetical and ridiculous idea that there is prostitution in spas in honeymoon luxury hotels. But very interesting that you would be willing to support this based on completely hypothetical and ridiculous speculation that there may be some "prostitution".

Originally Posted by Mathloom So if they want to do this, good for them.

Not good for them at all. Only if you sympathize with an absurd interpretation of Islam above anything else.

Originally Posted by Mathloom If the article was titled "a significant number of Maldivians converting to radical Wahabiism" and it included any real data, I would be very concerned obviously. There are several stakeholders involved though, and the Telegraph is speaking on behalf of the stakeholders which it likes the most. Regardless of what the Telegraph says, the most important (and maybe only important) people who we should be focusing on is the Maldivian people or their representatives, from which we've heard nothing.

It's not only reported in the Telegraph, this was all over the news.

I have heard that the big luxury hotels are ignoring this, though, e.g., the 3 spas in the Conrad Maldives are operating as usual.

[AroundTheWorld]

New article. Looks like some of the opposition leaders who were acting like hypocrites actually own some of those resorts, LOL. And the government is now making it seem like they ordered this only to make the opposition look bad. But I don't buy that. It's a stupid move, it already hurts tourism there now because it causes insecurity among tourists thinking about going there. The hotels are just ignoring the order.

Luxury spas get caught in Maldives' political crossfire

(CNN) -- Honeymooners and international hotel owners are at the center of an acrimonious showdown over religion between the government and opposition parties in the popular luxury tourist destination of the Maldives.
The Tourism Ministry last week banned the use of spas across the country, sparking a fiery debate over Islam's role in the governing of the island nation. The nation's pristine beaches and rich marine wildlife drew nearly 800,000 tourists in 2010.
The move has prompted confusion, legal action and civil disobedience in the Indian Ocean nation, which has a population of about 350,000.
"The government has ordered all the spas in the islands to shut down," said Mohamed Rashad, the manager of Royal Island Hotel and Aaramu Spa in the Maldives.
But the hotel industry "is not going for that," he said. "We are open today and never closed, and the other hotels are keeping their spas open as far as I know."
The standoff over tourists' rights to have massages and skin treatments at the high-end resorts, many of which charge thousands of dollars for a night's accommodation, came following calls from opposition groups for a stricter imposition of Islamic values in the Muslim country.
The opposition's demands conflict with the more liberal stance of President Mohamed Nasheed, who has urged the country to stick what he describes as the more "tolerant" strain of Islam that it has practiced for hundreds of years.
The situation came to a head after opposition groups staged a demonstration on December 23 in which they advocated, among other things, for a crackdown on massage parlors in the capital, Male, and other more densely populated areas.
Rather than ignore the demands, the government raised the stakes last week by issuing an order to close all massage parlors and spas across the country's nearly 1,200 islands.
The opposition groups had not sought such a blanket ban of spa activities, said Mohamed Shaheem, a spokesman for Adhaalath Party, which participated in the rally.
The government has ordered all the spas in the islands to shut down
Mohamed Rashad, hotel manager
"We respect tourists," he said. "We are very happy with the tourism industry in the Maldives."
In a statement, the president's office suggested that the broader ban was an effort to highlight contradictions in the positions of some opposition figures.
"Ironically, the same opposition leaders who railed against spas and the selling of alcohol and pork to tourists are some of the country's biggest resort owners," the statement said.
Opposition leaders involved in the tourism industry include Qasim Ibrahim, the founder and chairman of Villa Group, which owns five resorts in the Maldives. Ibrahim is also the head of Jumhooree Party, which participated in the December 23 rally.
Repeated efforts on Monday to reach Qasim were not successful.
The hotel industry reacted to the ban by seeking a temporary court injunction and by holding talks with the government to try to get the spa services at major hotels excluded from the order, said Rashad of Royal Island Hotel.
"This was done for political purposes," he said. "Nobody has come out to check on us or to carry out inspections."
For its part, the government has suggested that it is willing to compromise with the big operators.
"Several have raised concerns over our decision," Mariyam Zulfa, the tourism minister, was quoted as saying over the weekend by the local news service Haveeru. "We are considering allowing resorts to operate spas."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/02/wo...an/?hpt=ias_c2

[arno_ed]

Originally Posted by shastarocket Prostitution or not, the most troubling part of this report is the outright ban. I think the minute you decide to completely cut off a usually accepted aspect of society, you start heading down a slippery slope. Next thing you know, the alcohol will be gone, then the hotels, etc. What a waste...

yes or marijuana.

[glynch]

This is an interesting example of the pros and cons of having a third world country with an economy devoted totally to tourism. Of course ATW the noted Islamaphobe who insists on hanging out frequently in Islamic countries is not the ideal person to start the discussion. (still hoping there is some personal angle, a rejection by a cute Muslim woman, , a slight by a Muslim supervisor at work or something similar involved rather than reversion to the worst in recent German history)

I suspect Mathloom is right and an underlying issue is that the tourist economy is not doing much for the majority of the islanders which makes them less tolerant of tourism generally. I would also be shocked if there is not some prostitution involved with the apparently very wealthy tourists.

They probably need a Maldive Spring to spread the benefits of tourism to the majority. Hopefully we don't have a guy or two calling themselves "Al Qaeda" of the Maldives which then, in order to prevent an "existential" threat to America or at least create moderate democrats, will require an invasion or some stimulating drone action.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by glynch This is an interesting example of the pros and cons of having a third world country with an economy devoted totally to tourism. Of course ATW the noted Islamaphobe who insists on hanging out frequently in Islamic countries is not the ideal person to start the discussion. (still hoping there is some personal angle, a rejection by a cute Muslim woman, , a slight by a Muslim supervisor at work or something similar involved rather than reversion to the worst in recent German history) I suspect Mathloom is right and an underlying issue is that the tourist economy is not doing much for the majority of the islanders which makes them less tolerant of tourism generally. I would also be shocked if there is not some prostitution involved with the apparently very wealthy tourists. They probably need a Maldive Spring to spread the benefits of tourism to the majority. Hopefully we don't have a guy or two calling themselves "Al Qaeda" of the Maldives which then, in order to prevent an "existential" threat to America or at least create moderate democrats, will require an invasion or some stimulating drone action.

[AroundTheWorld]

So, now that they have embarrassed themselves enough:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...34d4e129233386

Maldives president orders resort spas to reopen

COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) — The president of the Maldives ordered the country's upscale resorts to reopen their spas on Wednesday pending a Supreme Court decision on whether they violate Islam, just days after they were shut under pressure from protesters led by an opposition party.
The court decision could be critical to the tourism-dependent island nation's economic future.
"The government has decided we will open all spas and give all the services to tourists which we have been giving before," President Mohammed Nasheed told The Associated Press by telephone.
"The tour operators were very worried" about the closure, he said.
Last week, authorities ordered all spas to close following a protest in the capital on Dec. 23 in which thousands of people called for a halt to "anti-Islamic" activities including spas.
The protesters also demanded that authorities halt the sale of alcohol on islands inhabited by local people, stop plans to allow direct flights from Israel, and demolish statues given by other countries to commemorate a South Asian summit in November which they saw as idols.
"To be racist in any way is detrimental to the tourism industry," Nasheed said of the call to halt Israeli flights. "This is not the way to go forward."
Debates on religious issues have intensified since a group vandalized a statue given by Pakistan bearing the image of Buddha. In November a protest followed a call by the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, for the Maldives to end the flogging of women found to have had sex outside marriage.
Nasheed has said he stands for a brand of moderate Islam traditionally practiced in the country and that it is vital to preserve tourism.

--------------------

LOL @ the people who thought that there were sexual activities offered in luxury honeymoon resort spas.

[R0ckets03]

Originally Posted by AroundTheWorld LOL @ the people who thought that there were sexual activities offered in luxury honeymoon resort spas.

As much as these resorts are charging for boarding, scuba, food, alcohol, spas, etc. they would have to be idiots to get involved in prostitution.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally Posted by R0ckets03 As much as these resorts are charging for boarding, scuba, food, alcohol, spas, etc. they would have to be idiots to get involved in prostitution.

Anyone who believes there is no prostitution going on in these hotels is similarly an idiot. Any tourist trap is going to have its fair share of prostitutes, though I do not believe they are directly affiliated with the hotels.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by GladiatoRowdy Anyone who believes there is no prostitution going on in these hotels is similarly an idiot. Any tourist trap is going to have its fair share of prostitutes, though I do not believe they are directly affiliated with the hotels.

You seem to have absolutely no idea about the Maldives. They are a honeymoon destination, hardly anyone travels there alone. And on the resort islands, there are no prostitutes. These are very isolated places. You seem to be confusing this with Pattaya or something.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally Posted by AroundTheWorld You seem to have absolutely no idea about the Maldives. They are a honeymoon destination, hardly anyone travels there alone. And on the resort islands, there are no prostitutes. These are very isolated places. You seem to be confusing this with Pattaya or something.

You're right that I have no idea about the Maldives specifically, but you seem to have no knowledge of the real world. In the real world, where there is big money in a resort location, there are prostitutes. Maybe the Maldives is the one place in the known world where this is not the case, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by GladiatoRowdy You're right that I have no idea about the Maldives specifically, but you seem to have no knowledge of the real world. In the real world, where there is big money in a resort location, there are prostitutes. Maybe the Maldives is the one place in the known world where this is not the case, but I wouldn't bet on it.

As you say, you have no idea about the Maldives. There is most definitely no prostitution in the luxury resorts there. I have traveled to many, many places, and I can say this for sure. You are judging from what you have seen, but I guess you would have to see it to understand. If all I had seen was Cancun, I would probably think like you.

You need to understand - the Maldives are not a destination for lonely business travelers or even for any kind of single travelers. They are a honeymoon destination. So, regardless of religion and laws, there is no market for prostitution on the resort islands (on the main island for the locals, there might be).

And the islands are so isolated that the cost and risk for any prostitute to relocate there to offer her services (with almost no single/unsupervised men being there) is prohibitive.

I was there on a trip around the world - alone - in 2003. I am pretty sure I was the ONLY single tourist on that whole island, other than like 150 honeymoon couples. Never felt lonelier in my life, and I think they thought of me as somewhat of a curiosity . (I "befriended" an Italian marine biologist lady working on that island after a few days, but that's a different story .)

I'd also say that typically, the people getting the expensive spa treatments are more probably the women rather than the men traveling there.

[bnb]

sounds like Jackie thoroughly researched the availability of prostitution in the Maldives.... So we'll take his word.

Maybe not 'none'...but certainly not prevalent.

this sounds more like politicians pandering to populous frustrations rather then working to improving their lot. Not unique to the islamic crazies, but never helpful overall.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally Posted by AroundTheWorld As you say, you have no idea about the Maldives. There is most definitely no prostitution in the luxury resorts there. I have traveled to many, many places, and I can say this for sure. You are judging from what you have seen, but I guess you would have to see it to understand. If all I had seen was Cancun, I would probably think like you. You need to understand - the Maldives are not a destination for lonely business travelers or even for any kind of single travelers. They are a honeymoon destination. So, regardless of religion and laws, there is no market for prostitution on the resort islands (on the main island for the locals, there might be). And the islands are so isolated that the cost and risk for any prostitute to relocate there to offer her services (with almost no single/unsupervised men being there) is prohibitive. I was there on a trip around the world - alone - in 2003. I am pretty sure I was the ONLY single tourist on that whole island, other than like 150 honeymoon couples. Never felt lonelier in my life, and I think they thought of me as somewhat of a curiosity . (I "befriended" an Italian marine biologist lady working on that island after a few days, but that's a different story .) I'd also say that typically, the people getting the expensive spa treatments are more probably the women rather than the men traveling there.

Yes, the women are in the spa while their men are scuba diving, jet skiing, or doing other, more manly activities.

And I'm sure it is impossible to get a prostitute in the resorts, unlike anywhere else in the world. I bet you think it is impossible to get drugs there, too.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally Posted by bnb sounds like Jackie thoroughly researched the availability of prostitution in the Maldives.... So we'll take his word. Maybe not 'none'...but certainly not prevalent. this sounds more like politicians pandering to populous frustrations rather then working to improving their lot. Not unique to the islamic crazies, but never helpful overall.

^ This

Politicians pander, it is a certainty the world over.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by GladiatoRowdy Yes, the women are in the spa while their men are scuba diving, jet skiing, or doing other, more manly activities. And I'm sure it is impossible to get a prostitute in the resorts, unlike anywhere else in the world. I bet you think it is impossible to get drugs there, too.

It is hilarious that you admit to not having any idea, yet you roll eyes. "Unlike anywhere else in the world" - how about we compare how many places in the world we have seen?

You seem to be very sure that things must be the same everywhere in the world, compared to what you have seen.

And yes, you can mock it, but I'd say it's 70 % to 30 % usage of resort spas women vs. men, on average, in the world.

The only island in the Maldives I can imagine prostitution going on (and where probably some of it does happen) is the overpopulated main island, where the locals live.

The resorts are all on tiny islands where you can walk from one end to the other in max. 20 minutes. You don't realize how unique the place is.

I find it funny how stubbornly you try to defend your position after you have already admitted that you have no clue about the place.

[JuanValdez]

Originally Posted by R0ckets03 If it were up to me, I would gather all these morons and give em a small piece of land somewhere where they can dress anyway they want and stare at only dudes.

We call that small piece of land the Maldives.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally Posted by AroundTheWorld It is hilarious that you admit to not having any idea, yet you roll eyes. "Unlike anywhere else in the world" - how about we compare how many places in the world we have seen? You seem to be very sure that things must be the same everywhere in the world, compared to what you have seen. And yes, you can mock it, but I'd say it's 70 % to 30 % usage of resort spas women vs. men, on average, in the world. The only island in the Maldives I can imagine prostitution going on (and where probably some of it does happen) is the overpopulated main island, where the locals live. The resorts are all on tiny islands where you can walk from one end to the other in max. 20 minutes. You don't realize how unique the place is. I find it funny how stubbornly you try to defend your position after you have already admitted that you have no clue about the place.

I wasn't mocking the spa usage rate, but it is funny that you thought I was.

I was mocking you for stubbornly trying to defend your position when it seems pretty fair to assume that if you are paying $10k for a night in a luxury resort, you might actually be able to get a prostitute to visit you. Again, maybe Maldives is the one place in the world where this is not true, but I wouldn't bet on it.