[Soccer] European championship 2012

[AroundTheWorld]

I don't think Spain will win it.

Germany, Netherlands, France or Italy.

And...

[dkamberi25]

Originally Posted by Yung-T What makes you think that Germany, Spain, Holland are not as strong as in 2010? Don't judge by meaningless friendlies, the coaches use these to try out youngsters and new tactics. All these 3 played a brilliant qualification and added top talent to their respective rosters, while keeping all veterans.

I'm not baseing this off of friendlies. With Spain, I see their core getting older and I don't envision them playing as strong as they have in 2008 and 2010. Also with Villa having been injured just about all season and Torres being Torres I could see scoring becoming an issue. With Holland, I just never know what to expect. They have been real good internationally of late, but that could change. Historically they are not so strong devensively and that could cost them a deep run. But I will conceed that no team has more up fromt then Holland. And Germany is the team I fear less for. I fully expect them to make a deep run, but as it is with Eurpoean football things can change quickly and that's the only thing I can honestly point out as a reason why they could falture. But again, I would conceed that they may possess the most well rounded team entering the Euro Cup.

[il italiano]

Originally Posted by Yung-T 06: I don't see France being a favourite, they had 5 wins and 5 draws in the qualification, in a very weak group. 08: I don't know how you see Germany as the "clear favourites" when Spain was right there with them.

no i agree, im just saying what people were saying pre tournament by looking at the betting odds the month before the tournament. in 06 france had slightly worse odds than italy going into that tournament. in 08 that spain team exploded into the team we know today, before that every1 questioned them bcuz historically spain always has a talented team, they just never seem to find the way to win - like the netherlands.

Also you always have to include italy, germany, brazil, and argentina as favorites going to any tournament just because of their history

[il italiano]

Originally Posted by Yung-T To add, you can't have one "clear favourite" as italiano tried to do, there's never one team that's clearly above all other groups. If you look at history the teams that were considered amongst favourites won in the majority of cases.

I agree with the overall point that your making. There usually isn’t an actual clear favorite on the pitch. However there are media created clear favorites on paper every tournament. That’s what those betting odds-makers do for a living – whether they are right or wrong. That’s what I was trying to show in my little summary up there – that they are usually wrong.

There are usually always a group of 2-3 countries that are labeled by the media as clear favorites - the team with the most likely chance to win the tournament. For example in 2006, Brazil (defending champion and really team with best team on paper) and Germany (host nation and history) were labeled as the clear odds on favorites for the tournament. Then there are of course your teams that are labeled favorites because of history and pedigree of their leagues and players - Italy, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, England, France, and Spain. These countries are always among the list of "favorites" by default, which is why there are a great number of teams listed as 'favorites' that win the tournament. There is always a clear favorite created by the media (usually deserved) whether that gap in quality between them and the rest of the ‘favorites’ is actually there or not.

9 times out of 10 there is a winner from the group of ‘favorites’. Hell only 8 teams have won world cups (italy, uruguay, brazil, argentina, england, germany, france, spain). The point i was trying to make was that the clear favorites rarely win the tournaments. it’s usually the team that people least expect that wins the tournament.( and By that i mean teams still among the 'favorites' not your minnows like Poland). For example, Italy in 06 was not expected to win the world cup mainly due to the distraction of the calciopoli scandal and because their two previous tournaments were unsuccessful in 02 and 04. Everyone was saying either Brazil or Germany were most likely the clear favorite. People also included Argentina and England as teams also likely, but not as likely to win the title. They only mentioned Italy of course because of history and the quality of players, you have to. But no one really thought they would do it- they were a bit of a surprise that year. So were France and Portugal.

The only year Id argue that I can remember a clear cut favorite winning the title was World Cup 2010. No one was surprised Spain won. They were the most talented team in the tournament and there was a gap that separated them from the rest of the pack (really only germany and Netherlands). Everyone expected that they would win it. It was almost as if it were their title to lose. It was inevitable that Spain won. They were that dominate in euro 08 and with the successes of Barca it was no real surprise they won in 2010.

[ferrari77]

Originally Posted by dkamberi25 I will be pulling for England as I have become a big fan of the EPL over the past few years and all of England's players play in the EPL. I will not go as far as to call them the favorites, but I do like there chances as the teams who I would call the favorites (Spain, Germany and Holland) are not as strong as they were in 2010. What I think hurts the Brits in national competition is how spread out there top talent is in league play. While just about all the top Spanish players play at Real or Barcelona, and a majority of the top Germans play in Munich and Italians in the two Milan teams, the English players are spread out between most of the EPL with guys coming from some of the lower teams like Stoke or Everton or Bolton or other teams like these. As a result I think the guys on the English team are not as comfortable playing with one another as some of the other top European teams are. Also, in the EPL teams seem to be much more diverse with players from what seems to be all corners of the earth, but in other countries (Germany, Spain and Italy) it seems that the majority of their league teams are made up of their countrymen.

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT waste your time supporting England.

If I were you and looking for a team to support that isn't a major fav, but still a big nation, I'd go with France.
And I think most of the Italian players usually come from Juve in most major tourneys. I haven't checked their squad list yet but with Juve winning Serie A this season, I can't imagine them not having a fairly great amount of players on the Azzuri for next month.

[ferrari77]

Originally Posted by ivenovember I don't see how you think this Holland team is not as good. Van Persie and Robben are healthy (opposed to two years ago). The only two players that you could really say are playing worse coming in are Sneijder and Van der Vaart. So many of the players are coming in much strongers including: Huntelaar, Affelay, Van der Wiel, Elia, etc. Theres no player that really turned too old to play in the two years (de Jong is the only one close to that category) and all the young players have shown their ability to compete in some of the best leagues in Europe. Now I'm interested to see who you think the starters will or should be. Right now I think I would have my 11 at: Steklenburg Van Der Wiel Heitinga Mathijsen Pieters Van Bommel De Jong Robben Sneijder Elia Van Persie But I'd like to see Affelay start and have Huntelaar and Kuyt as the main subs.

Ace already mentioned what I was going to say- Affellay.
Injured most of the year, and def. not coming in stronger.
I don't even think Elia made the squad. He barely got on the Juve team sheet this season. I think Van Marwijk left him out of the Dutch squad.

[ferrari77]

Originally Posted by Yung-T Young and talented, I agree. But not dark horses for the title. I think the team that could win by surprise is France, but they are not scoring as much as they could with all their chances, remind me of our Bayern squad. Their core is really strong and they have many young guys playing good right now. I also think Poland could play longer than expected(maybe semis) with their Dortmund guys.

The problem with that French squad is definitely not depth or scoring. The defense will be a problem. Especially the left side. I have confidence in Rami and Debuchy but I think Blanc may still be undecided on Koscielny or Mexes(should be no question-Koscielny has been the better defender recently for Les Bleus than Mexes has). If Mexes plays, then the opposing strikers in the group should be raring to go. Evra inspires no confidence in me(I say this as a United fan as well).

I like Blanc and I like what he's done with this French team so I'd definitely love to see them go far.

[ferrari77]

Originally Posted by Yung-T Some may call De Rossi, Pirlo, Cassano too old, but we'll see. Mexes will be on the bench anyways, so that's not a big thing. Look at the French squad: Lloris-Glichy, Evra, Debuchy, Rami, Mexes Koscielny, Reveillere - Ribery, Malouda, Nasri, Gourcuff, M'Vila, Diarra, Malouda - Ben Arfa, Benzema, Giroud, Valbuena, Menez . I left out some smaller names, but it's still a unbelievably talented roster. These guys played in European competitions, have the right mixture of youngsters&vets and they are starting to play as a unit. I don't really see any glaring weakness if they play with the right mindset. Now Italy: Alessandro Matri, Andrea Barzagli, Andrea Pirlo, Angelo Ogbonna, Antonio Nocerino, Christian Maggio,Claudio Marchisio, Domenico Criscito, Sebastian Giovinco, Thiago Motta, Daniele De Rossi, Davide Astori, Fabio Borini ,Federico Balzaretti, Giampaolo Pazzini, Giorgio Chiellini, Ignazio Abate, Riccardo Montolivo Sorry, but most of these guys are no-names outside of Seria A and barely have experience in international competitions, I don't see them as experienced enoguh to win the title.

The problem you mentioned is France playing with the right mindset. That is the biggest challenge and that's why I'd be more willing to bet on Italy than I would on France. Even with less big names than France, that might still work to Italy's favour. Those big names might play with more humility and cohesiveness than a France squad with personalities like Benzema, Ribery, Malouda, Gourcuff, Ben Arfa and M'Vila.

But I'm still rooting for France.

[fallenphoenix]

CAN'T WAIT!



GO ENGLAND!!!!

[713]

my money is on usa.

[forsythtroy]

I will be shocked if they make it out of the group stage. Still,



Força Portugal!

[il italiano]

Originally Posted by ferrari77 DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT waste your time supporting England. If I were you and looking for a team to support that isn't a major fav, but still a big nation, I'd go with France. And I think most of the Italian players usually come from Juve in most major tourneys. I haven't checked their squad list yet but with Juve winning Serie A this season, I can't imagine them not having a fairly great amount of players on the Azzuri for next month.

Juve represent 7 of the 23 players coming to euro 2012 for italy. Our entire core is built by juve players.



our ideal starting 11 (4-3-2-1): among the starting 11, 5 are juventus players.

-------------Buffon------------------
Maggio - Barzagli - Chiellini - Balzaretti
------De Rossi - Pirlo - Marchisio------
-------------Montolivio---------------
---------Cassano - Balotelli-----------

[dkamberi25]

Originally Posted by ferrari77 DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT waste your time supporting England. If I were you and looking for a team to support that isn't a major fav, but still a big nation, I'd go with France. And I think most of the Italian players usually come from Juve in most major tourneys. I haven't checked their squad list yet but with Juve winning Serie A this season, I can't imagine them not having a fairly great amount of players on the Azzuri for next month.

I know what I'm getting myself into. I know all about England's failures on the national level and that the last major competition they won was in the 60's. I have just gotten into EPL football so much that I have also started to take a liking to their national team. Brazil is still my favorite national team, but England is two and since its the Euro Cup there my squad. I could never root for France. I still remember the heartache they caused me in 98 and 06. But being a City fan I hope Nasri has a good tournament.

[ferrari77]

Originally Posted by dkamberi25 I know what I'm getting myself into. I know all about England's failures on the national level and that the last major competition they won was in the 60's. I have just gotten into EPL football so much that I have also started to take a liking to their national team. Brazil is still my favorite national team, but England is two and since its the Euro Cup there my squad. I could never root for France. I still remember the heartache they caused me in 98 and 06. But being a City fan I hope Nasri has a good tournament.

Lol. Heartache because they beat Brazil??

The heartache you felt supporting Brazil is still miles better than any you'll feel as an England supporter. Don't do it man. You're crazy.
If you're not English then it's not worth the harm it'll do to you as an England supporter.

Don't be crazy man!

[Jontro]

It's weird how optimistic some English supporters are. I went to some other forums and a few were saying something like, "we have a chance! yeah!" smh.

Their group isn't too difficult, probably would have no problem getting past Ukraine and Sweden. I will say this though, everyone is hoping they'd get a team from Group A in the knockout stage.

Question:
Any group stage surprises this year?

I think there will be a surprise from Group C.

[AroundTheWorld]

[Jontro]

[arno_ed]

Originally Posted by ferrari77 Ace already mentioned what I was going to say- Affellay. Injured most of the year, and def. not coming in stronger. I don't even think Elia made the squad. He barely got on the Juve team sheet this season. I think Van Marwijk left him out of the Dutch squad.

I agree that the netherlands does not seem to have the momentum we had 2 years ago. but I have faith they will do well. And hopefully finally beat Portugal (payback for 6 and 8 years ago).

Elia didn't make the squad. Narsingh made it instead.

It is interesting that Huntelaar got number 9 and Van Persie 17. I wonder if that means that Van Marwijk will give Huntelaar the starting position. Also Bouma got number 5, maybe van Marwijk will play him as left back.

[AroundTheWorld]

Originally Posted by arno_ed And hopefully finally beat Portugal (payback for 6 and 8 years ago).

I think you will crush Portugal...and I like that. I can't stand Ronaldo.

[Jontro]

No way Van Persie comes off the bench. Dude just finished the best season in his career, he's on a high right now. I think Van Marwijk will try to keep that energy going. Don't know about Huntelaar, I don't follow games outside of the EPL much.