[Fringe Science] Periodic Table

[Qball]

So I'm here at work talking to a co-worker about the Periodic table. We were debating about whether a new element can exist outside our solar system/galaxy/whatever. I stated that any new element that can either be synthetically created or naturally discovered on or off earth would be a heavier element (i.e. only ammendments to the end of the period table). My coworker is saying that it is possible that a new element can be found such as an element with an atomic number in between [3]Lithium and [4]Beryllium. I stated that the Periodic Table is complete and that no new element in between other elements can be found or created. Only a variation (isotope) of an element can exist but not a brand spankin new element.

We are both engineers and have VERY limited knowledge on chemistry. Any experts out there to explain this stuff? Is it possible to have a new element that fits in between potassium and calcium or in between Iron and Cobalt?? Not only in on Earth but anywhere in the universe?

Basically the question is, Is our Periodic Table absolute? Would some advanced aliens on Zen Nebula have the same periodic table as us but just extended or would they have a completely different Period Table.

Ya, so I am so sure that we Humans have the concept of elements down pat that I decided to put this on clutchfans and make myself look like a fool.

[Azadre]

Originally Posted by Qball So I'm here at work talking to a co-worker about the Periodic table. We were debating about whether a new element can exist outside our solar system/galaxy/whatever. I stated that any new element that can either be synthetically created or naturally discovered on or off earth would be a heavier element (i.e. only ammendments to the end of the period table). My coworker is saying that it is possible that a new element can be found such as an element with an atomic number in between [3]Lithium and [4]Beryllium. I stated that the Periodic Table is complete and that no new element in between other elements can be found or created. Only a variation (isotope) of an element can exist but not a brand spankin new element. We are both engineers and have VERY limited knowledge on chemistry. Any experts out there to explain this stuff? Is it possible to have a new element that fits in between potassium and calcium or in between Iron and Cobalt?? Not only in on Earth but anywhere in the universe? Basically the question is, Is our Periodic Table absolute? Would some advanced aliens on Zen Nebula have the same periodic table as us but just extended or would they have a completely different Period Table. Ya, so I am so sure that we Humans have the concept of elements down pat that I decided to put this on clutchfans and make myself look like a fool.

Elements are defined by the number of protons that they have, and the number of protons define the atomic number. Therefore, it is reasonable to suspect that there may be elements occurring in the universe with an atomic number > 118, but there will be no element 28.5 in between Cobalt and Iron.

[Rocket River]

I'm not scientist but I passed by a Holiday Inn Select.

An Element is determined by the number of Protons in the nucleas
i.e. 3 Protons = Lithium - 1 Proton = hydrogen

That being said barring some new measuring system
I don't think you can have a 'half a proton'
in order to have the new element between the elements we know

Rocket River

[B-Bob]

I can't find a Dmitri Mendeleev facepalm!

[Pizza_Da_Hut]

Originally Posted by B-Bob I can't find a Dmitri Mendeleev facepalm!

You must spread reputation before giving B-Bob rep.

Mendeleev alone is worth 100 rep points...

[Azadre]

Originally Posted by Pizza_Da_Hut You must spread reputation before giving B-Bob rep. Mendeleev alone is worth 100 rep points...

I want rep.

[B-Bob]

Originally Posted by Azadre I want rep.

So far, I've received more rep for posting things like "It's a TARP" with a picture of a camping tarp and admiral akbar... than I have for would-be clever science history jokes.

So the advice is pretty straightforward here.

[Ottomaton]

You can make heavier and heavier "new" (on Earth at least) synthetic elements, though they exist for picoseconds.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_element:

quote:

---

Quasi-synthetic elements include:

* Technetium, atomic number 43
* Promethium, atomic number 61
* Astatine, atomic number 85
* Francium, atomic number 87
* Neptunium, atomic number 93
* Plutonium, atomic number 94

(All elements with atomic numbers 1 through 94 are naturally occurring at least in trace quantities)


Transuranium elements

o Americium symbol Am, atomic number 95
o Curium symbol Cm, atomic number 96
o Berkelium symbol Bk, atomic number 97
o Californium symbol Cf, atomic number 98
o Einsteinium symbol Es, atomic number 99
o Fermium symbol Fm, atomic number 100
o Mendelevium symbol Md, atomic number 101
o Nobelium symbol No, atomic number 102
o Lawrencium symbol Lr, atomic number 103


Transactinide elements

o Rutherfordium symbol Rf, atomic number 104
o Dubnium symbol Db, atomic number 105
o Seaborgium symbol Sg, atomic number 106
o Bohrium symbol Bh, atomic number 107
o Hassium symbol Hs, atomic number 108
o Meitnerium symbol Mt, atomic number 109
o Darmstadtium symbol Ds, atomic number 110
o Roentgenium symbol Rg, atomic number 111
o Copernicium symbol Cn atomic number 112

Provisional names for recently observed synthetic elements:

* Ununtrium symbol Uut, atomic number 113
* Ununquadium symbol Uuq, atomic number 114
* Ununpentium symbol Uup, atomic number 115
* Ununhexium symbol Uuh, atomic number 116
* Ununseptium symbol Uus, atomic number 117
* Ununoctium symbol Uuo, atomic number 118

---

Maybe with some magic future technology you could change the physical constants of the universe and make them stable? Same with exotic states of matter like neutronium or strange matter from inside supernova remnants. Also, cosmic strings theoretically exist, which wouldn't be matter, but rather defects in the universe. They wouldn't really be new "elements", but would be different.

[csnerd84]

Originally Posted by Azadre Elements are defined by the number of protons that they have, and the number of protons define the atomic number. Therefore, it is reasonable to suspect that there may be elements occurring in the universe with an atomic number > 118, but there will be no element 28.5 in between Cobalt and Iron.

My reasoning would be similar to this well, but I also have very limited knowledge of chemistry. I was thinking about this exact same question few days back and reach to this conclusion on my own.

[Severe Rockets Fan]

From what I remember(and I may be wrong), once you get to a point where you have too many protons the 'strong forces' in the nucleus aren't able to counter the force of so much repulsive, positive charge in one place to hold together the atoms which is why they're unstable. That's why the elements with the highest atomic numbers only exist for fractions of a second.

I don't think being in another part of the universe would change that...but I may be wrong

Oh, and yeah, there are no elements between elements...LOL, B-Bob

[fadeaway]

Originally Posted by Pizza_Da_Hut You must spread reputation before giving B-Bob rep. Mendeleev alone is worth 100 rep points...

Mendeleev sucks. I hate that guy.

It's all about Niels Bohr, baby!

[Azadre]

Originally Posted by csnerd84 My reasoning would be similar to this well, but I also have very limited knowledge of chemistry. I was thinking about this exact same question few days back and reach to this conclusion on my own.

I was a biochemistry major in undergrad.

[Francis3422]

Earth is just a half a proton........tit.