Freedom of religion for non-Muslims in Islamic countries

Because I'm as affiliated and responsible for those so-called "Muslims" in the Islamic countries as I am with my Latina maid.

In other words, what they do has nothing to do with me. Yes, I'm pissed how Saudi Arabia treats its women but their version of what they call Islam has nothing to do with me. When I urge the French to reconsider the ban, I do that out of what I perceive is unfair, not compared to the track record of some backward patriarchal society in the Middle East. There is no reciprocity since there's not a single Islamic country that comes close to my Islam (there's people, but no official nations).

 

Because I view those women in burkas from a secular standpoint: they're females who are being told what not to wear. They could be Buddhist and I would stand up for them.

If a Mexican blows up a mosque, I'd protest racial profiling by cops of any Latinos passing by other religious centers.

Catch my drift? I don't care who they are, what's being done to them is what I'm concerned with.

 

I lived in Qatar for 2 years, 1/2 of the residents there are not Qatari but rather ex-pats from all over. I am not religious, but know that the Catholic church was quite active there and non-Muslims were not being forced to convert or anything.

Also, my understanding is that, up until the whole conflict over Israel happened (i.e. founding of Israel, Palestinian refugees being kicked out, various wars, etc.), plenty of Jews lived in Islamic countries and were often treated better than the Jews in parts of Europe (though that standard probably wasn't terribly high).

 

What you see is just that, just your perception of the world. Fortunately, things might not be like that in reality.

If you post anything relating to the treatments of Copts in Egypt, I will be quick to denounce the Egyptians. I will be outraged. I will stand alongside anyone who believes stuff like that is unjust. You might even call it solidarity?

So, when is the last time you posted anything regarding the unfair treatment of non-Muslims in the world? If I'd seen it, I would have written the same kind of comments as I have done in your recent threads.

Btw, anyone since 1914 knows the Middle East or the rest of the world isn't a bastion of democracy, freedom, enlightenment, etc. France, however, has a reputation that it likes to champion. When I see things that are contrary to it, I call it for what it is- hypocrisy. Haven't said, unjustness is bad anywhere it happens in the world. Post topics on them such as Darfur, East Timor, Amazonian tribes, and more and I will respond.

 

Maybe that's because people hold France to higher standards than Egypt. It's no different than people criticizing the US government for things that no one criticizes North Korea for - we hold first world, developed countries to higher standards when it comes to good governance, freedom, etc.

The simple fact is that we know that Egypt, North Korea, etc are 3rd world countries/dictatorships/etc. So of course it's not surprising when they do something crappy. However, the US and France are expected to do better than that - we hold ourselves as the world's beacons of freedom, modernness, integrity, etc. Therefore, people expect those countries to live up to that. And people in the west have influence to affect the decisions made in those countries - they have none over Egypt or North Korea. This is the same reason people hold Israel to higher standards than they do Palestinians.

Contrary to your worldview of making everything some kind of referendum about Islam, this occurs in all walks of life and has nothing to do with religion. It happened just recently here when looking at Arizona's treatment of illegal immigrants, while not focusing on Mexico's.

 

What's a Muslim country?

I think the U.S. constitution is the most Islamic one in the world.

As for the countries who declare themselves to be Islamic, there is no such thing as an Islamic state (as defined today) in the Quran or the Hadith. By definition, it does not exist therefore it is a fabrication, especially in light of "innovation" a.k.a. "bid3ah" Islam being rejected and/or a sin according to Hadith.

Hadith:

Quran:

* I don't believe in Hadith, but a huge portion of Muslims do.

 

I like how haven't responded to my last post ATW (#7). If you and I had a face to face conversation, we'd still sitting in silence.

If an immigrant from Iran criticized US policies on torture, should he just shut up and be thankful he made it to the US, or should America, as great as it is, listen and better itself by not torturing people?

^ this was just an example for sake of argument, don't derail the thread if you think torture is justified or whether the US does it all. The point is stop comparing to other countries and do what is best.

 

Ah my bad then. I appreciate it but I was hoping for more discussion along that thought. You might think that too many Muslims might be in solidarity when it comes to acts against Islam yet be quiet when it comes to other injustices (possibly justified, random example: Muslims view Jesus as one of the celebrity prophets yet only become outraged over Muhammad's depcitions and not Jesus - hypocrisy/ignorance IMO), and I hope to make you understand that's not the case.

 

I have a question for ATW or anyone else: What would bother you more: if you heard on the news that a man murdered his wife, or if you found out that a friend of yours abused his wife? Which would you be more outraged over?

 

That's part of it. But also, when its closer to home, you feel more of a obligation to object to it and rectify the behavior because you have more influence over the situation and not doing so ends up reflecting on you.

So, for instance, I'm a fairly secular person and I'm a US citizen, so its more in my interest that my country, my country's allies, and other countries that are philosophically in the same ballpark as me, uphold a certain standard. And when they slip, I think its important to call out that slippage, because its easy for things to snowball.

And its just practical. If US allies are doing things that I consider wrong and offensive, that puts not only a target on them but my country as well.