was busy getting the kids to bed, so didn't get to see Obama's foray into the enemy camp last night, but read through the speech this morning, and while I generally support the strategy, how the hell does a preemptive announcement of our intent to withdraw help us complete the mission? i daren't say "win" since that's clearly not Obama's goal, but the Taliban have been fighting for 30 years, and they're surely smart enough to hunker down for 18 months and wait for us to quit. if he does achieve something that resembles victory he'll be able to claim credit going into 2012, and if he doesn't, he can blame McCrystal, the afghans, W, Petreaus perhaps, keeping the latter on the sidelines in 2012. So as pure politics, it might be brilliantly calculated; as a war fighting strategy, it's pathetic.
^ and if there's anybody to trust with war fighting strategy - it's the ass clowns who brought us such wars as Iraq and Afghanistan. I can tell though that you didn't watch the speech - or even read a transcript or a news account, and went right to FREE REPUBLIC, in order to generate this FREE REPUBLIC APPROVED thread - because your statement belies a fundamental lack of understanding of the plan that was outlined. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2397697/posts
The Taliban was all set to surrender but now they know we will one day leave. OMG! This puts limited pressure on Karzai, and gives us a heads up. That is all.
Sorry... dry sarcasm doesn't translate so well to the internet. Utter nonsense to think the Taliban would surrender, or that their de facto strategy has ever been anything other than to outlast our presence. This is to prop up the Afghan gov. and as much arm twisting as we can muster to shape that country into something recognizable as legit. It's not a great solution to throw more troops into the fray, but and this is real folks, there are no great solutions to Afghanistan.
Was Bush's goal to "win" in Afghanistan? If so, he had more than 6 years to achieve it. How would you characterize his war fighting strategy?
the deferment camp, "its a pathetic war fighting strategy" George: Yeah. What's that? Jerry: Oh, it's Risk, it's a game of world domination being played by two guys who can barely run their own lives. (Picks up phone and dials)
I don't agree with Obama on a lot of things, including his decision to put this drama off this long, but I'm all for this strategy. 1) The Taliban have never envisioned a scenario where they beat us on the ground militarily. Their plan all along has been to outlast us there. 2) This is a target for withdrawal. It can be amended if the need is there. 3) More important than US troop levels in the region is the Afghan government nutting up. This basically gives them a time frame to straighten up and start doing their jobs right. If they don't, well I'm sorry, but there's only so many American lives and American dollars that should be sacrificed to fight for a country that can't hold itself together.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/01/obama.afghanistan.speech.transcript/index.html From Obama's Speech: [rquoter]Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011. Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground. We will continue to advise and assist Afghanistan's security forces to ensure that they can succeed over the long haul. But it will be clear to the Afghan government -- and, more importantly, to the Afghan people -- that they will ultimately be responsible for their own country.[/rquoter]
I hope the Taliban and al-Queda do try to lay low until the Americans leave. That will give the Afghan government plenty of time to shore up their positions, gain legitimacy in the country, consolidate their power, and get ready to fight when the time comes. Eighteen plus months will be a hell of a headstart for Karzai. The trick for him would be to not waste that time -- actually build legitimacy, build infrastructure, create normalcy, and train a real army. Unfortunately, I'm sure the Taliban won't by laying low.
I just used this argument with someone else. The idea that the Taliban are just going to lay down for over a year while Karzai stabilizes his government and entrenches is silly. They are going to keep fighting because when you are a rebellion you can't afford to give up what you've already won and start over.
Der Spiegel's take: -- It was as though Obama had taken one of his old campaign speeches and merged it with a text from the library of ex-President George W. Bush. Extremists kill in the name of Islam, he said, before adding that it is one of the "world's great religions." He promised that responsibility for the country's security would soon be transferred to the government of President Hamid Karzai -- a government which he said was "corrupt." The Taliban is dangerous and growing stronger. But "America will have to show our strength in the way that we end wars," he added. It was a dizzying combination of surge and withdrawal, of marching to and fro. The fast pace was reminiscent of plays about the French revolution: Troops enter from the right to loud cannon fire and then they exit to the left. And at the end, the dead are left on stage.
Also.....Obama said he'd start to withdraw troops in 18 months. Not leave. So have no fear...the war will continue until the powers that be deem it no longer necessary. What you should get from the speech is: 1) Greater troop presence ASAP. 2) Goal of having Afghanistan self govern. 3) Intent to leave in 18 months. Soldiers shouldn't be booking their flights home just yet.
Funny to see basso ignore all the responses in this thread and just regurgitate more articles without any ability to defend his position at all.
Der Spiegel is correct. No need to support Obama when he blunders like he did last night--essentially trapped by having 5th columinists like Gates in his administration working with Repubs like McChrystal and Petreus to tie his hands. However, Liberals should not get so screwed up that we don't vote for Obama again--at least in the general election-- but do oppose his war buildup. Still better than the party of Cheney,Palin and Limbaugh, but time to show Obama that he cannot keep going against the majority of his own party just to please fickle independents. Hopefully he is not so deluded as to think he can garner GOP/conservative support by his war escalation. Time to demonstrate against Obama's war.
It is true that is silly to muck around for another 18 months or whatever. Well I hope you are willing to send your kids for the next 30 years of fighting the Taliban. I guess however, being a chickenhawk is a multi-generational thing.
