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Here Comes the Statist Fat Police

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Southern Select, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Southern Select

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    This is such a coincidence with the socialist health care program. Who would have thunk it??? I would to thank the liberals in advance for saving me from myself. (I would like to add that blaming Mexicans for our CRISIS is racist and is lacking tolerance in our new found Obama-defined glorious, tolerant utopia.) But in the end, D.C. is right and they need to save Texas from our anti-liberal culture.




    WASHINGTON — Obesity is the elephant in the room of health care reform, a public health catastrophe that kills well over 100,000 Americans a year, may cost Texas $15.6 billion next year in health care costs and lost productivity, and promises to shorten U.S. life expectancy for the first time since the Civil War.

    Whatever Washington does this year to try to lower medical spending almost certainly will be swamped by the nation's rising weight.

    Obesity lurks behind the top chronic illnesses — heart disease, diabetes, stroke and colon, breast and prostate cancers, among many others — whose treatments routinely cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. In two decades the obesity rate in Texas has more than doubled — 29 percent of Texans in 2007 were obese.

    Every third child born in 2000 is likely to wind up diabetic. Obesity strikes hardest at the poor and minorities; black women are nearly 40 percent more likely to contract heart disease than white women. Two out of three adults are overweight in Texas and nationwide.

    Obesity is causing “death and illness on a massive scale,” according to a new study by University of Virgina and Urban Institute researchers. And it is all but impossible to treat.

    “Rising obesity rates are increasing health care expenditures per person in a way that is going to be very difficult to finance,” said Jay Bhattacharya, a doctor and health economist at Stanford University's Center for Primary Care and Outcomes Research. “Unless there is some vast improvement in the efficiency of the health care system — and I mean vast — we're going to be spending a lot more just because a lot more people will have diabetes” and other obesity related diseases.

    Prevention is the only cure. If obesity-prevention efforts are not implemented, Texas will have more than 15 million obese adults by 2040, according to projections by Texas State Demographer Karl Eschbach.

    Yet while health care legislation in Congress would raise spending on prevention of chronic disease, it does little to tackle the underlying obesity epidemic directly. In fact, most of the bills are silent on what many health professionals contend would be one of the most effective weapons: a tax on soda.

    Junk food taxes are part of a growing consensus among public health experts to adapt the successful fight against tobacco to the more complex obesity epidemic. Food, unlike tobacco, is necessary to life, and cheap food has all but eliminated hunger among the poor. Yet there are parallels with smoking.
    Texas getting help

    The Texas Legislature has not seriously considered politically controversial junk food taxes. Instead, the state and health groups are focusing on education and community strategies to fight excess weight from birth. The Texas Department of State Health Services will receive $4.7 million over the next two years to support obesity-prevention programs, including a “Texas! Bringing Healthy Back” initiative that was launched last year.

    Since 2000, Texas has been one of 25 states also receiving funds from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to fight obesity. Lindsay Rodgers, a health department prevention specialist, said the CDC has urged sending money to communities for vegetable gardens, sidewalks and work site wellness programs and to hospitals to make them baby-friendly so more mothers will breast feed, one way to reduce obesity risk in children.

    Statistics indicate that African-Americans and Latinos have higher obesity rates than Anglo Texans. But experts say that obesity prevention programs have not successfully targeted minority residents.

    Texas Sen. Leticia Van de Putte of San Antonio said education programs that have tried to teach kids about eating nutritious foods have “backfired” because they made the food their families cooked for them seem bad.

    “We love Mexican food in this state,” Van de Putte said, adding that there are ways to prepare it to be healthier.

    More can be done, she said, like tax incentives for workplace wellness programs.

    “The government can't be a nanny to someone, but if we continue to ignore (obesity), we all pay the price. … It's not a moral imperative, it's a financial imperative.”


    Mitchell Gibbs, a Texas Health Institute spokesman, said the Legislature's record on obesity issues is mixed.

    In the past session, lawmakers agreed to encourage healthy food in schools and funding for physical education programs.

    But bills allowing the use of food stamps at farmers' markets, banning unhealthy trans fats in restaurants, and requiring menu labels at chain restaurants failed.

    What's more, the Legislature made high school health class optional and reduced physical education requirements from 1½ semesters to one.

    In Washington, Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee mocked proposed jungle gyms and bike trails in health reform legislation, yet studies show such efforts help.

    “It doesn't sound crazy if you start looking at the causes of the problem,” said Kelly Brownell, an obesity researcher at Yale University's Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity. “In poor neighborhoods there is low access to healthy foods, high access to calorie-dense, nutrient-poor foods, and when healthy foods are available, they're more expensive.”

    The same holds for physical activity, where crime, poor facilities and parents working multiple jobs limit opportunities for safe play and exercise. The obesity problem took hold over one generation, a short period in the history of public health.

    “Every successful public health movement, whether it was sanitation or air pollution or drunk driving or tobacco, has shown that people can only be healthy if there are policies in place that support them in making healthy choices,” said Harold Goldstein, executive director of the California Center for Public Health Advocacy.

    “We put fast food on every corner, we put junk food in schools, we got rid of PE, we put candy and soda at the checkout stand of every retail outlet you can think of,” he said. “The results are in. It worked.”

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6574236.html
     
  2. Al Calavicci

    Al Calavicci Contributing Member

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    There is nothing in this article that supports your fear-mongering commentary at the top of this thread. Better luck next time.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Hopefully they throw your fat ass into an internment camp that lacks internet access.
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    This is pretty much how I feel too.

    Somewhere in SS's tripe there is an interesting discussion to be had about the role of government in shaping the culture of its citizens to be healthier... maybe one day we'll have that discussion.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I didn't see anything about taxing or imprisoning you for being overweight. Also that article focussed on legislation in Texas and not on the Federal level so it has nothing with Obama.
     
  7. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    The number one thing that soda companies could do to reduce the deleterious effects of their products: eliminate the use of high fructose corn syrup. That stuff is so highly processed that your body cannot effectively break it down and it causes more tooth decay and weight gain than can sugar would.

    As an added benefit, cane sugar tastes better.
     
  8. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Our bodies can readily metabolize fructose and glucose...
     
  9. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    From wiki...

    Elliot et al.[30] implicate increased consumption of fructose (due primarily to the increased consumption of sugars but also partly due to the slightly higher fructose content of HFCS as compared to sucrose) in obesity and insulin resistance. Chi-Tang Ho et al. found that soft drinks sweetened with HFCS are up to 10 times richer in harmful carbonyl compounds, such as methylglyoxal, than a diet soft drink control.[31] Carbonyl compounds are elevated in people with diabetes and are blamed for causing diabetic complications such as foot ulcers and eye and nerve damage.[32][33]

    A study in mice suggests that consumption of a fructose solution (not HFCS) increases obesity when compared with a sucrose solution.[34] Large quantities of fructose stimulate the liver to produce triglycerides, promotes glycation of proteins and induces insulin resistance.[35]

    According to one study, the average American consumes nearly 70 lb (32 kg) of HFCS a year, marking HFCS as a major contributor to the rising rates of obesity in the last generation. [36]

    In a 2007 study, rats were fed a diet high in fat and HFCS and kept relatively sedentary for 16 weeks in an attempt to emulate the diet and lifestyle of many Americans.[37] The rats were not forced to eat, but were able to eat as much as they wanted; they consumed a large amount of food, and the researcher, Dr. Tetri stated that there is evidence that fructose suppresses the sensation of fullness. Within four weeks, the rats showed early signs of fatty liver disease and type II diabetes.

    Shapiro et al. fed rats a high-fructose diet for six months and compared them to rats that had been fed a fructose-free diet. Although the rats that had consumed high levels of fructose showed no change in weight, when compared to the rats that had consumed a fructose-free diet, levels of leptin in the blood of rats fed a high-fructose diet indicated the development of leptin resistance. When the rats were switched to a high-fat diet, the leptin-resistant rats, those fed a high-fructose diet, gained more weight than those who had not developed the resistance and had been fed a fructose-free diet.[38]

    Several studies funded by Tate & Lyle, a large corn refiner, the American Beverage Institute and the Corn Refiners Association,[39][40] have defended HFCS. Forshee et al. concluded "that HFCS does not appear to contribute to overweight and obesity any differently than do other energy sources."[41] Melanson et al. (2006), studied the effects of HFCS and sucrose sweetened drinks on blood glucose, insulin, leptin, and ghrelin levels. They found no significant differences in any of these parameters.[42] Monsivais et al. (2007) compared the effects of isocaloric servings of colas sweetened with HFCS 45, HFCS 55, sucrose, and aspartame on satiety and subsequent energy intake.[43] They found that all of the drinks with caloric sweeteners produced similar satiety responses, and had the same effects on subsequent energy intake.

    One much-publicized 2004 study found an association between obesity and high HFCS consumption, especially from soft drinks.[44] However, this study provided only correlative data. One of the study coauthors, Dr. Barry M. Popkin, is quoted in the New York Times as saying, "I don't think there should be a perception that high-fructose corn syrup has caused obesity until we know more."[45] In the same article, Walter Willett, chair of the nutrition department of the Harvard School of Public Health, is quoted as saying, "There's no substantial evidence to support the idea that high-fructose corn syrup is somehow responsible for obesity .... If there was no high-fructose corn syrup, I don't think we would see a change in anything important." Willett also recommends drinking water over soft drinks containing sugars or high-fructose corn syrup.[46]

    A pilot study reported that some high-fructose corn syrup manufactured in the U.S. in 2005 contained trace amounts of mercury. The mercury appeared to come from caustic soda and hydrochloric acid, two chemicals used in the manufacture of high-fructose corn syrup. Apparently caustic soda used by HFCS has been produced in industrial chlorine chlor-alkali plants using the mercury cell Castner-Kellner_process, and can contain traces of mercury. Mercury concentrations in the samples testing positive ranged from 0.012 μg/g to 0.570 μg/g (micrograms per gram). Nine of the twenty samples tested did contain measurable amounts of mercury.[47]

    30. Elliott, Sharon S; Nancy L Keim, Judith S Stern, Karen Teff and Peter J Havel (April 2004). "Fructose, weight gain, and the insulin resistance syndrome1". Am J Clin Nutr. 79 (4): 537–43.

    31. Soda Warning? New Study Supports Link Between Diabetes, High-fructose Corn Syrup Released: Mon 13-Aug-2007, 16:30 ET Source: American Chemical Society (ACS) - Newswise

    32. "Diabetes fears over corn syrup in soda". New Scientist. 04 September 2007. http://www.newscientist.com/channel...0-diabetes-fears-over-corn-syrup-in-soda.html. Retrieved 2007-11-17.

    33. Theresa Waldron Sugary Sodas High in Diabetes-Linked Compound

    34. Jurgens, Hella; et al. (2005). "Consuming Fructose-sweetened Beverages Increases Body Adiposity in Mice" (abstract). Obesity Res 13: 1146–1156. doi:10.1038/oby.2005.136. http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/7/1146.

    35. Faeh D, Minehira K, Schwarz JM, Periasamy R, Park S, Tappy L (July 2005). "Effect of fructose overfeeding and fish oil administration on hepatic de novo lipogenesis and insulin sensitivity in healthy men". Diabetes 54 (7): 1907–1913. doi:10.2337/diabetes.54.7.1907. PMID 15983189. http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/54/7/1907.

    36. Mariniello, J. Martin (2007-11-28). "Weight Loss — Revealing The Hidden Secrets" (in English). Obesity Factors In Current Society. http://weightloss.revealthesecret.net. Retrieved 2007-11-28.

    37. “Supersize Me” Mice Research Offers Grim Warning for America’s Fast Food Consumers

    38. Shapiro, Alexandra; Wei Mu, Carlos A Roncal, Kit-Yan Cheng, Richard J. Johnson, and Philip J. Scarpace (November 2008). "Fructose-Induced Leptin Resistance Exacerbates Weight Gain in Response to Subsequent High Fat Feeding". Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol. http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/short/00195.2008v1.

    39. online abstracts2006 internet forfait haut at eb2006-online.com

    40. Similarities Between HFCS and Sucrose Revealed

    41. Forshee et al. (2007). "A critical examination of the evidence relating high fructose corn syrup and weight gain". Critical Reviews in Food Science and Nutrition 47 (6): 561–582. doi:10.1080/10408390600846457. PMID 17653981. http://www.hfcsfacts.com/images/pdf/CriticalReviewsinFSandN47-6-561-582.pdf.

    42. Melanson K et al. Eating Rate and Satiation. Obesity Society (NAASO) 2006 Annual Meeting. October 20-24, 2006, Hynes Convention Center, Boston, Massachusetts

    43. Monsivais P et al. (2007). "Sugars and satiety: does the type of sweetener make a difference?". American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 86 (1): 116-123.

    44. Bray, George A.; Samara Joy Nielsen and Barry M. Popkin (01 April 2004). "Consumption of high-fructose corn syrup in beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity". American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 79 (4): 537–543. PMID 15051594. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/4/537.

    45. Warner, Melanie (July 2, 2006). "A Sweetener With a Bad Rap". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/02/business/yourmoney/02syrup.html. Retrieved 2007-11-17.

    46. Coca-Cola & The American Beverage Ass. to sell the Brooklyn Bridge

    47. Dufault, Renee; LeBlanc, Blaise; Schnoll, Roseanne; et al. (2009). "Mercury from chlor-alkali plants: measured concentrations in food product sugar". Environmental Health 8: 2. doi:10.1186/1476-069X-8-2. PMID 19171026. PMC: 2637263. http://ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2. Retrieved August 9, 2009. Lay summary – Medscape Today (2009-01-27). "
    "Mercury in any form – either as water-soluble inorganic salt, a lipid-soluble organic mercury compound, or as metallic mercury- is an extremely potent neurological toxin."
    "...it is currently impossible to establish a no adverse-effect-level for mercury in humans.".
     
  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    What a fantastic and interesting article. Southern Select, as has been pointed out by others, your framing of this issue was off target. I for one, forgive you, because the topic is so important.

    To attempt a real discussion, please respond to which of the following points from the article you find untrue or incomplete.

    Which of these points do you dispute? Points 1-7 seems rock solid to me.

    There is a health crisis related to obesity. The numbers are in, and that's a fact. We currently have a very socialist system, where healthy punks like me, SamFisher, and Trader_Jorge have to pay into a system whereby the grossly obese then consume most of the healthcare resources. It's not sustainable.

    Did you have a problem with the public campaigns against pollution, drunk driving, and smoking? If so, why? Do you miss your right to drive drunk and run over people? You still have the right to give yourself lung cancer, but there is a tax disincentive and an information campaign to let people know what they're doing to their lungs.

    Why not let people know that obesity is really, really bad for them and everyone else who pays into the healthcare system? (via private insurers, mind you.)
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    PS -- the lack of addressing this problem is one of my primary problems with the current congressional healthcare legislation. It's a huge missed opportunity to do something right.
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Uh, I'm just big-boned.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Listen guys, this is serious. We need to set up safe houses for fat people. We can start an underground dining car railroad to get them to safety.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Kind of ironic how Southern Select highlighted the parts of the article that most undermined his premise.

    Come out of your bunker dude. It's starting to affect your ability to properly evaluate reality.

    My god, their encouraging the use of healthy foods in schools!
     
  15. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

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    The FAT POLICE?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  16. ChrisP

    ChrisP Contributing Member

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    Strange thread SS. I read your thread title and opening remarks, then I read the article and thought, "WTF, did I miss something?" Did you post the wrong article? :confused:
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I think he means that he sees a new cloud on the horizon: the current obesity discussion will be (in his mind) a new way by which an increasingly socialist (sic) government can tell people what to do, think, say, and in this case, eat. In the future, we will just get 3 little rations per day and mandatory exercises every morning! Maybe? :confused:

    I'm just trying here!
     
  18. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I just want the OP to confirm his opinion that being fat is part of conservative culture. Thanks.
     
  19. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    God forbid we have a national discussion about doing something different. Everybody knows industry always makes the best decisions (eg Big Auto or Big Insurance or Wall Street) so there is no need to ever question them.

    Dialogue is bad. It is a clear demonstration of weakness.
     
  20. halfbreed

    halfbreed Contributing Member

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    I think what bothers him is the quote that people can only make healthy decisions if the government passes laws that essentially force them to do so.

    There are two problems with that quote.

    First, it's false. People will take steps to be as healthy/safe as they see fit. They will fasten their seat belt if they feel it is a benefit to them not outweighing the costs. I will fasten my seat belt even if the government stops writing people tickets for failure to do so.

    Second, it is none of the government's business, currently, how healthy I am. If I want to be unhealthy what business is it of the government's? It is MY decision to do so. I think the fear is that once their is a single payer, entirely government run health care system, which is where I think most believe this will lead to, that it WILL be the government's business because the government will be paying.
     

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