[Personal curiosity] Is a little bit of socialism such a horrible thing?

America has been very socialistic in practice for a long time.

Socialism is basically collectivism. By definition it is the cooperative control of economy by government.

It is the method very large corporations (including both industrial/financials) use to control government.

Is it a horrible thing? Depends upon if you control the government (and thus the people) or if you (the people) are under the control of the government.

 

People are stupid, lazy, and easily frightened into disliking things they don't understand. Nobody but the already wealthy really wants full blown capitalism and even most of them don't really want it because it's a dirty, ugly scene.

 

ding ding ding!!!!! it's funny to discuss this with people who have never considered this.

 

Because most Americans have no idea what socialism or communism is. Most of the Western Europe is basically socialist society. US is very much a socialist society when compared to nations like China.

People do not want socilism but they do want unemployment checks, social security, medicare etc.

 

Correct, and no, it's not necessarily bad.

From the standpoint of social theory, Bakunin would advocate that socialistic enterprise merely replaces the industrial capitalist regime with a similarly anti-liberty bereaucratic red "state". Both deny the worker the means to appropriate true freedom. I.e., in capitalism one suffers from the exploitation of man via man, in warped soviet-esque socialism, the individual suffers from the dominion of man via man.

 

Understatement of the year.

 

I don't think its a bad thing.

 

This question is very similar to the following statement about communism; In theory, communism is great. But neither deal with the realism.

Social security, medicare, ect ... all sound like a great idea, but at the end of the day, the same fact remains...The government is the least effective and efficient entity of running anything.

 

I know, we should just get rid of social security, medicare, free school lunch, food stamp. If you cannot make it, you should just die, I believe that is a great plan and fully support it. Imagine the tax cut we could achieve and build 30 more carrier fleets to control the rest of the world.

 

How do you feel about the US highway system? The CDC? NASA? Should all of these have been left to the private sector?

And medicare is more efficient by most measures than private health insurance right now. A much higher portion of it's total expenditures go to health care than in the private sector where it goes to administrative fees. Yes, costs are climbing out of control - but they are going out of control in the private sector just as quickly.

 

I believe there has to be a safety net in a decent society. How far it goes is the real question, in my mind.

But the private sector and the survival of the fittest modes and values of the free market simply will not provide those protections.

 

Medicare/universal health care?

Just a fyi. Sounds like a great idea? For most of the world, with one single glaring exception, it IS a great idea.

Time to stop getting on the high horse on phobias over concepts associated with communism and get down to REAL solutions to this...

 

With regard to freedom... hmmmm
American freedom is really an outdated concept

Realistically there is very little freedom from government control which is the traditional idea of individual freedom.

I can't think of much that doesn't require some type of government permission and control... there are permits, liscense, statutes, ordinances, taxes etc on most everything

Like someone told me if you think you own your property just stop paying your property taxes

 

The sensitivity stems from the fact that the wealthy elite want people to continue to "believe" in capitalism because that is what keeps them rich. Propaganda and ignorance is what continues the sensitivity towards socialism.

What percentage of the population travel outside the US? What percentage of those go to countries that have more socialist practices?

How many people hate France? Why do they hate France? Are there any good reasons to hate the French? How many people have actually observed the French? Have most people formed a negative opinion about the French because of their own observations or because of something that they were told?

If you asked 1000 Americans to define socialism, what do you think their answers would be? How many of these same people would be able to identify any social programs that exist in the US other than welfare?

How many people really understand the US budget? Who controls this money?

 

Two reasons I think people are against socialism...

1) The mentality that not everyone is putting up their fair share. The "why should my tax dollars go to pay for something I don't benefit from" attitude. Although this is present in all governments, it's greater in magnitude for socialist systems. This is why some people believe that governments are "inefficient".

2) Socialism rewards innovation less than capitalism does. Lots of republicans believe this albeit it's always in a demented and propagandistic form such as "The American Dream is lost". This is primarily why rich people are republican. Less innovation = less money in the long run, any economist will agree. The wealth distribution will be anything but distributed with the rich getting richer.


Is socialism a bad thing? Depends how much money you have...

 

socialism isn't a bad thing but once you start using it heavily for wealth redistribution it weakens the economic potential of your country by a lot. i'm not a fan of federal healthcare or welfare.

 

No, the fear of socialism is, as MB put it, born out of a propoganda campaign intended to maintain the standing of the property-holder elites.

People like Space Ghost thus indoctrinated just trade one form of wage-slavery for another.

 

As a generalism, this is always one of the more brazenly unsubstantiated yet commonly accepted standpoints of right wing dogma.