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Al Gore's Electricity Plan 100% Renewable in 10 Yrs.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/opinion/19herbert.html?hp

    I don't think America can do a project this big in ten years-- given the ideological restraints on government action except for war making. In addition you will have lobbies like the coal industry, the petroleum industry etc. putting out propaganda to stop the effort.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    One thing that is encouraging is that T Bone Pickens is pushing wind energy.

    http://www.pickensplan.com/

    ***************
    Op-Ed Columnist
    Yes We Can


    By BOB HERBERT
    Published: July 19, 2008

    As I was listening to Al Gore on the telephone, I was thinking: “Uh-oh, the naysayers will have a field day with this one.”
    Skip to next paragraph


    The former vice president was giving me an advanced briefing on the speech that he delivered on Thursday, calling on the United States to behave like a great nation and actually do something real about its self-destructive and ultimately unsustainable reliance on carbon-based fuel for its 21st-century energy needs.

    “I’m going to issue a strategic challenge that the United States of America set a goal of getting 100 percent of our electricity from renewable resources and carbon-constrained fuels within 10 years,” he said.

    “One hundred percent?” I said.

    “One hundred percent.”

    Mr. Gore’s focus is primarily on solar, wind and geothermal energy. His belief is that a dramatic, wholesale transition to these abundant and renewable sources of energy is not just doable, but essential.

    My view of Mr. Gore’s passionate engagement with some of the biggest issues of our time is that he is offering us the kind of vision and sense of urgency that has been so lacking in the presidential campaigns. But the tendency in a society that is skeptical, if not phobic, about anything progressive has been to dismiss his large ideas and wise counsel, as George H. W. Bush once did by deriding him as “ozone man.”

    The naysayers will tell you that once again Al Gore is dreaming, that the costs of his visionary energy challenge are too high, the technological obstacles too tough, the timeline too short and the political lift much too heavy.

    But that’s the thing about visionaries. They don’t imagine what’s easy. They imagine the benefits to be reaped once all the obstacles are overcome. Mr. Gore will tell you about the wind blowing through the corridor that stretches from Mexico to Canada, through the Plains states, and the tremendous amounts of electricity that would come from capturing the energy of that wind — enough to light up cities and towns from coast to coast.

    “We need to make a big, massive, one-off investment to transform our energy infrastructure from one that relies on a dirty, expensive fuel to fuel that is free,” said Mr. Gore. “The sun and the wind and geothermal are not going to run out, and we don’t have to export them from the Persian Gulf, and they are not increasing in price.

    “And since the only factor that controls the price is the efficiency and innovation that goes into the equipment that transforms it into electricity, once you start getting the scales that we’re anticipating, those systems come down in cost.”

    The correct response to Mr. Gore’s proposal would be a rush to figure out ways to make it happen. Don’t hold your breath.

    When exactly was it that the U.S. became a can’t-do society? It wasn’t at the very beginning when 13 ragamuffin colonies went to war against the world’s mightiest empire. It wasn’t during World War II when Japan and Nazi Germany had to be fought simultaneously. It wasn’t in the postwar period that gave us the Marshall Plan and a robust G.I. Bill and the interstate highway system and the space program and the civil rights movement and the women’s movement and the greatest society the world had ever known.

    When was it?

    Now we can’t even lift New Orleans off its knees.

    In his speech, delivered in Washington, Mr. Gore said: “We’re borrowing money from China to buy oil from the Persian Gulf to burn it in ways that destroy the planet.”

    He described carbon-based fuel as the thread running through the global climate crisis, America’s economic woes and its most serious national security threats. He then asked: “What if we could use fuels that are not expensive, don’t cause pollution and are abundantly available right here at home?”

    Americans are extremely anxious at the moment, and I think part of it has to do with a deeply unsettling feeling that the nation may not be up to the tremendous challenges it is facing. A recent poll by the Rockefeller Foundation and Time magazine that focused on economic issues found a deep pessimism running through respondents.

    According to Margot Brandenburg, an official with the foundation, nearly half of 18- to 29-year-olds “feel that America’s best days are in the past.”

    The moment is ripe for exactly the kind of challenge issued by Mr. Gore on Thursday. It doesn’t matter if his proposal is less than perfect, or can’t be realized within 10 years, or even it if is found to be deeply flawed. The goal is the thing.

    The fetish for drilling for ever more oil is the perfect metaphor these days. The first thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging.
     
    #1 glynch, Jul 19, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2008
  2. HombreDeHierro

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    Well we could do that for electricity and convert our coal into gasoline.

    Seriously though, BRING ON THE NUCLEAR POWER!!
     
  3. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I like this kind of thinking, even if it isn't achievable. Shoot for the stars and see how high you can go. We need urgency.
     
  4. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Title is misleading. There is no such thing as renewable energy. :p
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Not electing Al Gore in 2000 (actually electing Al Gore in 2000, but not implementing it) may prove to be one of the gravest mistakes in the history of the US.
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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  7. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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  8. lastmanstanding

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    What's wrong with nuclear power?
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    At least 15 percent of our near term power will likely come from biomass.

    There's no shortage of **** anytime soon.
     
  10. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    It costs 5-8 billion per reactor. (..and McCain's plan is to build 45 new reactors)

    We could put solar panels on probably every house in America for that.
     
  11. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    They've been doing this in India for heat/fire/etc. for centuries. Why don't think they don't kill cows?
     
  12. HombreDeHierro

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    Hey we can just print some more money out...
     
  13. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Sure...Gore's rhetoric sounds good. It is one thing to say it and quite another for being responsible for implementing it.

    The equipment for wind and solar is very expensive, and cannot be produced (and paid for) in the volume that would be required to produce anything close to 100% of our power within 10 years.

    With the cost oulay that would be required for the equipment, there are two realistic (I realize this may be a problem) options for the cost:
    (1) Electric companies pay for it. In this case, they will have to pass along that huge cost to consumers.

    (2) Government pays for it, which will require income tax increases or a tax per kWh.

    Either way, consumers who are already stretched to their end get squeezed more.

    There needs to be a realistic plan to get this done. It's a great idea, but the logistics must be worked out sensibly.
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Gore is on Meet the Press this morning to talk about this plan.
     
  15. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I've seen estimates that it would cost like $3 trillion to do the plan. This is roughly equal to the cost of the Iraq War, which we essentially borrowed. We can borrow the money to pay for energy and solar. The good thing about borrowing this money is that it will have a good payback as we save $hundreds of billions per year in electrical costs and environmental destruction costs.

    This type of borrowing is a good investment. We can raise some taxes to do so, also. The plan itself would be a massive stimulus which should offset some if not all of any depreesion effect from the tax increase.

    Fortunately given our still wealth as a country it is still really a political will problem which is debatable can be solved until we have an extremely severe envrionmental problem or catastrophic additional dubbling or trippling increase

    in energy prices.

    As imports grow and world prices rise, the amount of money we send to foreign nations every year is soaring. At current oil prices, we will send $700 billion dollars out of the country this year alone — that's four times the annual cost of the Iraq war.
    Loading...

    Projected over the next 10 years the cost will be $10 trillion — it will be the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind.



    http://www.pickensplan.com/
     
  16. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    I understood what you were saying-- just having some fun, although I think that one could still make an argument for renewability. The source of the power is renewable in the sense that it recreates itself by rising tomorrow... as Annie so ably describes in song.

    Here's a piece from Dictionary.com....

    RENEWABLE: # Relating to or being a commodity or resource, such as solar energy or firewood, that is inexhaustible or replaceable by new growth.
     
  17. Refman

    Refman Member

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    So when we borrow money to finance the war we hear about how borrowing money is going to destroy our economy (which is accurate), and when it is to finance $3 trillion in new infrastructure, it is a boon? It just doesn't work that way.

    I am NOT saying that this is not a project that we want to undertake. I am saying that if we do not do this very carefully with very realistic time frames, it will rock an already fragile economy.
     
  18. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    The idea is that infrastructure pays dividends. Wars in areas of the world where they've been fighting over religious differences for over a thousand years generally don't pay a lot of dividends.
     
  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    This push for green energy will simulate the economy, create jobs, and finally begin to break our addiction to foreign oil. Going to the moon in a decade was considered nonsense before we actually put major dollars and research behind making it happen. Unlike going to the moon wind and solar farms wouldn't be a one shot deal -- they would be a permanent part of our lives.
     
  20. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    You need to stop thinking of of a two year time line and more to 50 year time line. 3 trillion is drop of the bucket over time.
     

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