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Has Affirmative Action Outlived Its Usefulness in the Workplace?"
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Dnjndmrc5 is offline Old 06-04-2008, 01:49 PM   #1
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I think it still exisits since so many qualified people are left out from higher education or employment

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Layupdrill is offline Old 06-04-2008, 04:20 PM   #2
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I believe that while Affirmative Action is a good step in addressing disadvantages the racial minorities may have because of their economic status or upbringing by giving them a fair shot at different types of jobs.

But its still very sad when a more qualified candidate is not given a job based on his race alone.

In this day and age, I'd say the majority of people have equal opportunity to be successful in education and jobs... within the next 100 years, if the world lasts that long, I'd expect to see a drop off in race based public service or programs.

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Lil Pun is online now Old 06-04-2008, 04:37 PM   #3
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I just think it is funny how some people think that 35 years makes up for 400. It will take decades before there is an actual, equal playing field.

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typhoon is offline Old 06-04-2008, 04:53 PM   #4
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"I don't think I should get a job over somebody who is more qualified, but if it's a tie F' em! You got a 400 year head start!" :D

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basso is offline Old 06-04-2008, 04:57 PM   #5
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in the workplace perhaps, in education i would say not, but i would qualify that by noting that the criteria are wrong. preferences should be based on income, not race, sex, etc.

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rimrocker is offline Old 06-04-2008, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basso
in the workplace perhaps, in education i would say not, but i would qualify that by noting that the criteria are wrong. preferences should be based on income, not race, sex, etc.
I thought the whole point was to raise income for those previously discriminated against.

How would your idea work?

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basso is offline Old 06-04-2008, 07:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
I thought the whole point was to raise income for those previously discriminated against.

How would your idea work?
how would income-based preferences work? seems pretty straightforward to me. those with less income would be granted preferential treatment on college admissions. i would imagine, due to other historical inequalities, that this would snare a fair number of minorities and/or women in the preferential net.

i'd think this would be something you support- non?

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u851662 is offline Old 06-04-2008, 09:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basso
how would income-based preferences work? seems pretty straightforward to me. those with less income would be granted preferential treatment on college admissions. i would imagine, due to other historical inequalities, that this would snare a fair number of minorities and/or women in the preferential net.

i'd think this would be something you support- non?
Hmmm... Basso, that is a good thought to ponder on. Not saying I agree but it is an idea that I would like to hear more about... Have you been hitting the Canabis today?

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krosfyah is offline Old 06-04-2008, 09:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basso
how would income-based preferences work? seems pretty straightforward to me. those with less income would be granted preferential treatment on college admissions. i would imagine, due to other historical inequalities, that this would snare a fair number of minorities and/or women in the preferential net.

i'd think this would be something you support- non?
I'd support a system that lets each institution make their owns assessments on what factors they want to chose. As long as they are not discriminating, two equal candidates should be able to be assessed for more than just their statistics.

If a University feels low income people are underserved, they should be able to use that as A FACTOR.

If a University feels hispanics are underserved, they should be allowed to use that as a factor.

Having somebody like you assign some sort of arbitrary restriction on how institutions chose their candidates is just getting extra people involved that aren't necessary.

I thought you were a republican who beleive Federal control of things is not preferable. So why are you in support of legislating this?
 
wizkid83 is offline Old 06-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #10
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I always hear the Right make the argument around why the black African immigrants do very well compared to other black people in the U.S. This leads me to my following view. The problem isn't just discrimination in the work place today, I believe that "I'm being held back beause I'm black" argument holds a lot less water now then it does in the past. I think today, the color of a black person's skin isn't going to be the MAJOR driver in roadblocks to his success.

However, I believe the true problem is within the black community, stemming from 400 years of slavery, denial of education, disenfranchisement, and other vastly un-even playing field that bred a culture of hopelessness, leading to under achivement and contentment through resentment. A problem that can be only fixed through the same effort that was used in the past 400 years to hold them back. Black votes need to count anywhere from 5/3 rds to 3x of white votes in elections. There need to be an effort to make schools in the black community the best place they want to be.

I'm not preaching welfare or affirmative action, I do believe those are actually more counter productive and is only a band-aid on a problem that needs a surgery. The true mission would be to be prepared to spend/invest the next 100 years to change the CULTURE within the black community.
 
FranchiseBlade is offline Old 06-04-2008, 11:05 PM   #11
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I have yet to see a proven case where a white candidate was denied a job that he/she was more qualified for simply because of race.

I hear talk about it, but I've never heard of a case where that happened.

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rimrocker is offline Old 06-05-2008, 12:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basso
how would income-based preferences work? seems pretty straightforward to me. those with less income would be granted preferential treatment on college admissions. i would imagine, due to other historical inequalities, that this would snare a fair number of minorities and/or women in the preferential net.

i'd think this would be something you support- non?
That would be tough to execute fairly. While someone rich can fake being poor relatively easy, it's tough to fake being black. (Insert Vanilla Ice joke here.)

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Air Langhi is offline Old 06-05-2008, 12:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
That would be tough to execute fairly. While someone rich can fake being poor relatively easy, it's tough to fake being black. (Insert Vanilla Ice joke here.)
Well I don't think anyone sneak one past the IRS. They brought down barry bonds don't think they can't break down some random white rich dude.
 
rimrocker is offline Old 06-05-2008, 12:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Langhi
Well I don't think anyone sneak one past the IRS. They brought down barry bonds don't think they can't break down some random white rich dude.
I'm not basso, but I'm guessing he'd have a problem with the IRS deciding who got student loans.

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basso is offline Old 06-05-2008, 06:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranchiseBlade
I have yet to see a proven case where a white candidate was denied a job that he/she was more qualified for simply because of race.

I hear talk about it, but I've never heard of a case where that happened.
i have a personal example, where an employer told me so directly as the reason i did not get particular job. of course, it was just me and him in the room, and he's dead now, so no proof, and in any case, it was quite some time ago.

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basso is offline Old 06-05-2008, 06:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krosfyah
I'd support a system that lets each institution make their owns assessments on what factors they want to chose. As long as they are not discriminating, two equal candidates should be able to be assessed for more than just their statistics.

If a University feels low income people are underserved, they should be able to use that as A FACTOR.

If a University feels hispanics are underserved, they should be allowed to use that as a factor.

Having somebody like you assign some sort of arbitrary restriction on how institutions chose their candidates is just getting extra people involved that aren't necessary.

I thought you were a republican who beleive Federal control of things is not preferable. So why are you in support of legislating this?
why would you think i'm a republican?

in any case, the problem with affirmative action is not one of federal control, but rather one of inherent biases in the system. I see no problem with tweaking existing laws so that they're more equitable, and i suspect the end result would be very much the same.

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MrRolo is offline Old 06-05-2008, 10:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid83
I always hear the Right make the argument around why the black African immigrants do very well compared to other black people in the U.S. This leads me to my following view. The problem isn't just discrimination in the work place today, I believe that "I'm being held back beause I'm black" argument holds a lot less water now then it does in the past. I think today, the color of a black person's skin isn't going to be the MAJOR driver in roadblocks to his success.

However, I believe the true problem is within the black community, stemming from 400 years of slavery, denial of education, disenfranchisement, and other vastly un-even playing field that bred a culture of hopelessness, leading to under achivement and contentment through resentment. A problem that can be only fixed through the same effort that was used in the past 400 years to hold them back. Black votes need to count anywhere from 5/3 rds to 3x of white votes in elections. There need to be an effort to make schools in the black community the best place they want to be.

I'm not preaching welfare or affirmative action, I do believe those are actually more counter productive and is only a band-aid on a problem that needs a surgery. The true mission would be to be prepared to spend/invest the next 100 years to change the CULTURE within the black community.

you got my vote

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langal is offline Old 06-05-2008, 02:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranchiseBlade
I have yet to see a proven case where a white candidate was denied a job that he/she was more qualified for simply because of race.

I hear talk about it, but I've never heard of a case where that happened.
i dunno about jobs. but it happens quite a lot to whites and asians who apply for colleges.
 
langal is offline Old 06-05-2008, 02:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
That would be tough to execute fairly. While someone rich can fake being poor relatively easy, it's tough to fake being black. (Insert Vanilla Ice joke here.)
you are so wrong.

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langal is offline Old 06-05-2008, 02:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krosfyah
I'd support a system that lets each institution make their owns assessments on what factors they want to chose. As long as they are not discriminating, two equal candidates should be able to be assessed for more than just their statistics.

If a University feels low income people are underserved, they should be able to use that as A FACTOR.

If a University feels hispanics are underserved, they should be allowed to use that as a factor.

Having somebody like you assign some sort of arbitrary restriction on how institutions chose their candidates is just getting extra people involved that aren't necessary.

I thought you were a republican who beleive Federal control of things is not preferable. So why are you in support of legislating this?
I don't think Basso is implying any Federal legislation on private institutions.

However, a lot of colleges and jobs are public. And this is where some sort of state (or federal) policies (or lack thereof) would enter the political arena.
 

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