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U.S. Supreme Court overturns Florida Supreme Court election ruling
Tags:  clutchcity.net, cnn, election, florida Tags
Clutch is offline Old 12-04-2000, 12:35 PM   #1
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U.S. Supreme Court overturns Florida Supreme Court election ruling

US Supreme court ruled the Florida Supreme Court overstepped its authority.

How embarrassing for the Florida Supreme Court. I wonder if they have to give Albert back the hush money now.

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Rocketman95 is offline Old 12-04-2000, 02:01 PM   #2
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No, I just decided that if Clutch was going to throw out ridiculous and absurd assumptions like the Florida Supreme Court was bribed, then I thought I'd throw a few of my own.



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Major is online now Old 12-04-2000, 02:03 PM   #3
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Actually, if you actually read the decision instead of quoting headlines , you'd know that the Supreme Court did NOT overturn the ruling -- it simply set it aside and required that the Florida Supreme Court explain it's actions. It basically is like a temporary restraining order on the Florida ruling until more information is in.

Pretty much a loss for the Gore campaign, but there is a big difference in that it's not final yet.

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Launch Pad is offline Old 12-04-2000, 02:24 PM   #4
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Okay, first, let me start off by saying, I believe that Gore should concede. I hate Bush, but really, who wants this Presidency anymore? Partisanship will be obscene in the Congress and the actual Presidency will pretty much be a guaranteed 4 years and out sort of deal.

Now, with that disclaimer aside, who finds it ironic that the Republicans (who traditionally have been in favor of stronger state and weaker federal governments) have created a new precedent to make the division between state and federal power a little fuzzier?

I ask this question to stimulate discussion about the possible implications of the decision, not to argue the merits of Gore vs. Bush (read: above disclaimer). Do you feel, partisanship aside, that it is a good or bad thing for the Supreme Court to rule in state matters? Has the Supreme Court overstepped its bounds? Explain why or why not.

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Clutch is offline Old 12-04-2000, 02:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman95:
I'm sure they will return the money just as soon as Kathryn Harris gets off her knees and Dubya stops the lines and doesn't give her an ambassadorship.
As long as you agree money was exchanged

Quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
Actually, if you actually read the decision instead of quoting headlines.
I guess CNN softened the title... that was the headline, and the story did say at the time I posted it that the US Supreme Court ruled the Florida Supreme Court overstepped its authority.

Does anyone else find it stunning that Gore's cronies have played the partisan card nonstop regarding Katherine Harris, but scoff at suggestions of partisan decisions made in their favor?

Imagine the Democratic party propaganda had Jeb Bush stuck around.

Anyhow, if anyone has an "in" with Gore, let me know when he does plan to concede... I'd like to buy some stock right when he drives the market to its lowest point.

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bobrek is online now Old 12-04-2000, 02:59 PM   #6
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Launch Pad

I think it is good for the U.S. Supreme Court to hear cases in which State Supreme Courts may have overstepped their bounds as it relates to federal law. In this case, the Bush attorneys argued that the Florida Supreme court did just that. For that reason there must be a "higher power" for state courts to answer to.

On the other hand, the U.S. court should stay out of clear cut state matters. For example, assume that President's day is not a holiday at some public schools in Florida. A school may appeal all the way to the state Supreme Court that they should have the day off, but the case should stop there since there is no federal law indicating that you must have President's day off. Perhaps a lame example, but certainly one that could occur.

It is important to remember that Legislature creates law and the courts (at times) have to interpret that law. If the state court's ultimate decision can be argued that the state court "created" new law, then that case HAS to go to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Although this ruling is not the "death blow" that an overturned verdict would be to Gore, it certainly is hampering him with respect to time issues. For instance, if the Florida court goes back and writes their decision in a more succint manner, it will certainly be appealed again by Bush. I don't know what recourse Gore would have if the Florida court decides not to readdress the issue.

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Major is online now Old 12-04-2000, 03:15 PM   #7
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Although this ruling is not the "death blow" that an overturned verdict would be to Gore, it certainly is hampering him with respect to time issues. For instance, if the Florida court goes back and writes their decision in a more succint manner, it will certainly be appealed again by Bush. I don't know what recourse Gore would have if the Florida court decides not to readdress the issue.

I think this is most accurate result of this. Time issues will basically end the appeals, regardless of what would have happened. It's disappointing in that I would like to ultimately have all these issues resolved for the future. But come December 12th (or close to), I'm guessing Gore will concede and all the lawsuits and these issues will be forgotten and thus left for another day.

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HOOP-T is offline Old 12-04-2000, 03:24 PM   #8
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R95, you are slacking. Where is your rebuttal. It has been a good hour and a half since your last post.

Who's line is it anyway?

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Rocketman95 is offline Old 12-04-2000, 03:31 PM   #9
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The thing is, there's a big, big difference when you're talking about a woman in a position that's about to be eliminated who had previously ran Bush's campaign in Florida and has been mentioned as up for an ambassadorship and when you're talking about Supreme Court justices.

I'd never assume that Supreme Court justices in Texas, now nearly all Republican, would vote party line on an election issue. I tend to believe that when you get in a position like that, you've obviously shown that while you may have your own opinions about certain matters, you also realize that the rule of law is the only thing that matters. I don't think any judge in this case, whether they've sided with the Vice-President or with the coked-up governor, have made decisions based on personal beliefs.

I also think that the Jeb Bush recusal was a nice publicity move by the Bush camp, but seeing how he doesn't have any real authority when it comes to election matters in Florida, it really didn't matter.

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Danilo is offline Old 12-04-2000, 03:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clutch:
Does anyone else find it stunning that Gore's cronies have played the partisan card nonstop regarding Katherine Harris, but scoff at suggestions of partisan decisions made in their favor?
The partisanship displayed by Katherine Harris isn't even in the SAME LEAGUE as the Florida Attorney General and Florida Supreme Court. I really love that she used public funds to pay for a Stormin' Norman "Get out the Vote" commercial in Florida.

Quote:
Originally posted by Clutch:
Imagine the Democratic party propaganda had Jeb Bush stuck around.
For being recused, he certainly has a lot to say on supporting the legislature hearings on selecting their own slate of electors. I think even Junior would call this a Fuzzy Recusal.

Quote:
Originally posted by Clutch:
Anyhow, if anyone has an "in" with Gore, let me know when he does plan to concede... I'd like to buy some stock right when he drives the market to its lowest point.
Do you not remember who was at the helm during the last recession? Common sense tells you by looking at the last 20 years that a Democratic president is much better for the economy.

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[This message has been edited by Danilo (edited December 04, 2000).]
 
TheFreak is offline Old 12-04-2000, 03:51 PM   #11
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People in elected positions are supposed to be biased, justices are not (but they still are). All elected officials are partisan, hence the term "Republican" or "Democrat". If the Fla Sec of State is a partisan that just happens to not be on your side, that's tough. The Fla Supreme Court however seems to be the only body that has come up with an opinion inconsistent with the law, not Harris.

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JayZ750 is offline Old 12-04-2000, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danilo:
Do you not remember who was at the helm during the last recession? Common sense tells you by looking at the last 20 years that a Democratic president is much better for the economy.
But all the market movers are waiting for Bush to become president and then predict substantial initial upward movement. Not saying it will happen, but most likely, as everyone is pretty much on the same page on this one.



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Danilo is offline Old 12-04-2000, 04:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobrek:
Although this ruling is not the "death blow" that an overturned verdict would be to Gore, it certainly is hampering him with respect to time issues. For instance, if the Florida court goes back and writes their decision in a more succint manner, it will certainly be appealed again by Bush. I don't know what recourse Gore would have if the Florida court decides not to readdress the issue.
[/B]
I've heard from several constitutional law scholars that this "Do Over" by the Supreme Court to the Florida Supreme Court is actually a virtue in disguise for Gore (even though you lose a day or two).

Now the Florida Supreme Court knows exactly what the US Supreme Court is looking for and can clarify their decision. One scholar compared this to Gore's team kicking a field goal on the 30 yard line, getting an off sides on the defense, and thus have a easier time the second time around.

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Danilo is offline Old 12-04-2000, 04:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by JayZ750:
But all the market movers are waiting for Bush to become president and then predict substantial initial upward movement. Not saying it will happen, but most likely, as everyone is pretty much on the same page on this one.
Sure, if you want to daytrade in the upcoming days on the reassurance that the market will have someone at the helm. I'm talking about the long-term aspect of having another Republican in the whitehouse. You can quote me on this: If Dubya is elected, he'll follow in his father's footsteps by bringing the economy back into a recession.

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Jeff is offline Old 12-04-2000, 04:20 PM   #15
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Let's simplify the whole thing:

They all take money. They all suck. They all are out only for themselves and those who pay them. That is politics plain and simple.

Look, I'm going to be very honest about this whole thing. I've talked to an awful lot of politicians, political insiders and consultants over the past year because of the arena campaign. The consensus was, is and always will be that political leaders on both ends of the political spectrum and on both sides of nearly every issue are simply for sale.

Sometimes that money is paid to get an endorsement (one candidate backs a successor for example). Sometimes, it is just to get a potential opponent to be quiet (buying a vote in the legislature on one issue by conceding your vote on another).

I talked to tons (dozens and dozens) of people who told me straight up that Republicans and Democrats all do it and it is widely known and accepted as a part of the political process. Want fewer restrictions on pollution? Call the Republican Party. Want fewer restrictions on lawsuits? Call the Democrats.

In fact, one person told me that the only difference between local politicians and national one's was that the national one's are more willing to sell themselves and are better at getting away with it.

I think we have seen this on full display all over Florida. The very fact that we even have to cry "partisanship" demonstrates the fact that our government is nothing more than a bunch of hustlers in suits and power ties. They don't give a rats ass about helping those in their constituency. Their primary concern is fattening their wallets and hanging out with their drinking buddies.

The whole thing is pathetic.

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JayZ750 is offline Old 12-04-2000, 04:27 PM   #16
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I think Clutch was talking baout making a profit on the relatively short term, hence him wanting to know the exact day that Gore would concede. thats all im referring to.

I wont make a statement one way or the other on the longterm success of the country economically. I am not blind to the fact that the previous Bush era ended in an economic downturn for the country. However, I similary do not give Clinton's campaign much of the credit when it comes to the more recent expansion of our economy, as this certainly has more to do with the technology boom and mass utilization of the internet as well as a well-run federal reserve now more aware of its own policies and the effects of its decisions, allowing it to delicately balance interest rates anf inlfations to keep the expansion going. Further, some empirical evidence leads one to beleive that economic trends exist that also may keep the genreal well being of the countries economy oout of the hands of the policy-making institutions, such as the fact that there has been a recession of some sort at the turn of the msot recent decades, in 1970, 1980, 1990, and now there is some evidence that at least the present expansion is slowing down (while Clinton is STILL in office and neither Gore nor Bush have become president much less been named president elect). So I do not know the economic direction of the country and ask that nobody quote me in 4 years time

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Danilo is offline Old 12-04-2000, 04:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by JayZ750:
I think Clutch was talking baout making a profit on the relatively short term, hence him wanting to know the exact day that Gore would concede. thats all im referring to.
To profit from this you would have to buy the securities before the concede announcement. Good luck chasing a stock after the announcement, especially if it is afterhours.

Quote:
Originally posted by JayZ750:
I wont make a statement one way or the other on the longterm success of the country economically. I am not blind to the fact that the previous Bush era ended in an economic downturn for the country. However, I similary do not give Clinton's campaign much of the credit when it comes to the more recent expansion of our economy, as this certainly has more to do with the technology boom and mass utilization of the internet as well as a well-run federal reserve now more aware of its own policies and the effects of its decisions, allowing it to delicately balance interest rates anf inlfations to keep the expansion going. Further, some empirical evidence leads one to beleive that economic trends exist that also may keep the genreal well being of the countries economy oout of the hands of the policy-making institutions, such as the fact that there has been a recession of some sort at the turn of the msot recent decades, in 1970, 1980, 1990, and now there is some evidence that at least the present expansion is slowing down (while Clinton is STILL in office and neither Gore nor Bush have become president much less been named president elect). So I do not know the economic direction of the country and ask that nobody quote me in 4 years time
So you are saying the balancing of the Federal budget, and subsequent surplus accredited to the Clinton/Gore administation, did not play a big role in the greatest US economy in 40 years?

Also, Greenspan was selected by Reagan, if I recall correctly, so we can't give him much credit for the thriving economy during the Clinton/Gore years.

As for the present slowing of the economy, many economists blame this on Bush leading the polls coming into election day, and thus the market "getting ready" for Bush being at the helm.

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Pole is offline Old 12-04-2000, 05:04 PM   #18
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Thank you Jeff

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Pole is offline Old 12-04-2000, 05:07 PM   #19
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Man, I walked down the hall to take care of some business at work, then walked back to my office, and I'm still thinking about it.

I have to say it again,

Thank you Jeff



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JayZ750 is offline Old 12-04-2000, 09:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danilo:
To profit from this you would have to buy the securities before the concede announcement. Good luck chasing a stock after the announcement, especially if it is afterhours.
There is really no need for me to argue someone else's point here, but it seems to me one would want to knwo when Gore is going to concede so securities can be bought BEFORE this date, instead of say now, a week or two before, when those stocks may still get hammered in the meantime.

Quote:
Originally posted by Danilo:
So you are saying the balancing of the Federal budget, and subsequent surplus accredited to the Clinton/Gore administation, did not play a big role in the greatest US economy in 40 years?

Also, Greenspan was selected by Reagan, if I recall correctly, so we can't give him much credit for the thriving economy during the Clinton/Gore years.

As for the present slowing of the economy, many economists blame this on Bush leading the polls coming into election day, and thus the market "getting ready" for Bush being at the helm.
Im not saying the budget surplus did not play a role. I am just saying when you take all of these effects, add them with the fact that you have the role of congress also, and in the end the effet of the clinton/gore administration is not substantial.

Greenspan was appointed during the Reagan years and as such has been the Federal Reserve Chairman throughout the Clinton administration. It takes a while to learn the ropes of the reserve. Learning to delicately balance the economic interests of our nation doesnt come overnight, but was perfected by Greenspan during the Clinton era. I think most people agree that Greenspan had a significant affect, often leading to such statements overheard at lunchtime disputes such as..."Greenspan is the guy with the real power in Washington" (hasnt everyone been in a conversation like this at one point?).

Part of the slowing down of our economy has to due more with the extreme overvaluation of technology companies the past few years and the subsequent mini-crash of the stock market last April.

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[This message has been edited by JayZ750 (edited December 04, 2000).]
 

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