Utah @ SA. Tankjob to play us?

[Spacemoth]

Right now it looks safe to say that whoever wins the game between Utah and San Antonio will end up playing the Rockets in the first round. Rockets are locked in the 5 seed as long as they beat the Clippers, to whom they realistically have no reason to want to lose, since the 3 and 4 seeds are as of yet undetermined. Thus, the odds look heavily in our favor to finished with 55 wins and the 5 seed. If San Antonio loses, they will be the four seed against us with home court. If Utah loses, they will play us in the first without home court; however, they may look at it and say that the Rockets without home court are preferable to the Suns with it.

If what every national prognosticator is saying is correct, then teams are just licking their lips in hopes of drawing us in the first round. Between Houston or Phoenix, one would presume San Antonio would also prefer to face the team without Shaq as well as the one that didn't deserve to beat them last year if not for a shady referee, a hard Horry foul, and inane NBA rules regarding leaving the bench. This could lead to a South Park little-league-baseball-esque competition between San Antonio and Utah to see who can lose the hardest and thus get the matchup they desire.

Do you guys think something like this could happen? Sloan and Popovich are crafty so they'll certainly make it look unintentional, a la Adelman's benching of players with single-game "injuries". Finally, do you think the Rockets could use this as motivation, to prove to the world that we aren't just pushovers? Personally I'm rooting San Antonio to lose (NOT for Utah to win, mind you, I'm just ignoring that half of the equation until a later date when we can exact properly revenge) because Hollinger thinks our best chance of advancing to the second round is against them. For what it's worth he also thinks Utah will go to the Finals.

[rofflesaurus]

there's still a chance we could lose to the clips and phoenix could beat the blazers, which would drop us to the 6th seed and move phoenix to the 5th seed, screwing the spurs or jazz if they decided to tank their final game. however, we'll most likely beat the clippers but i dont think the spurs or jazz will "try" and tank, but it could be very interesting.

[bratna8]

If both teams have the same intentions of tanking....I wouldn't play my starters and just live with the results.

[H-townhero]

There's a possibility of a 4 way tie isn't there where 4 teams are at 55-27? We'd be 5th seed with Phoenix at 4th seed?

[H-townhero]

Yeah just looked it up, if Utah wins, SA loses, Suns win and Rockets win it's a 4 way tie with us at 5 seed, Suns at 4 seed and we'd have homecourt over them.

[Kim]

All these questions and wrong assumptions are addressed in the official magic number thread.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread...71#post3615571

SA cannot tank to play us unless San Antonio can somehow rig the Suns Blazers game in Phoenix to have the Suns lose. Explanation is in the thread.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by H-townhero Yeah just looked it up, if Utah wins, SA loses, Suns win and Rockets win it's a 4 way tie with us at 5 seed, Suns at 4 seed and we'd have homecourt over them.

You are incorrect. Spend 5 minutes reading the other thread and you will understand then.

[rpr52121]

Originally Posted by H-townhero There's a possibility of a 4 way tie isn't there where 4 teams are at 55-27? We'd be 5th seed with Phoenix at 4th seed?

There is actually still a slim possibility of a 5 team tie between NO, SA, Utah, Phoenix, and Houston...

[Sean Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Spacemoth Right now it looks safe to say that whoever wins the game between Utah and San Antonio will end up playing the Rockets in the first round. Rockets are locked in the 5 seed as long as they beat the Clippers, to whom they realistically have no reason to want to lose, since the 3 and 4 seeds are as of yet undetermined. Thus, the odds look heavily in our favor to finished with 55 wins and the 5 seed. If San Antonio loses, they will be the four seed against us with home court. If Utah loses, they will play us in the first without home court; however, they may look at it and say that the Rockets without home court are preferable to the Suns with it. If what every national prognosticator is saying is correct, then teams are just licking their lips in hopes of drawing us in the first round. Between Houston or Phoenix, one would presume San Antonio would also prefer to face the team without Shaq as well as the one that didn't deserve to beat them last year if not for a shady referee, a hard Horry foul, and inane NBA rules regarding leaving the bench. This could lead to a South Park little-league-baseball-esque competition between San Antonio and Utah to see who can lose the hardest and thus get the matchup they desire. Do you guys think something like this could happen? Sloan and Popovich are crafty so they'll certainly make it look unintentional, a la Adelman's benching of players with single-game "injuries". Finally, do you think the Rockets could use this as motivation, to prove to the world that we aren't just pushovers? Personally I'm rooting San Antonio to lose (NOT for Utah to win, mind you, I'm just ignoring that half of the equation until a later date when we can exact properly revenge) because Hollinger thinks our best chance of advancing to the second round is against them. For what it's worth he also thinks Utah will go to the Finals.

Wait, I'm confused. You say the winner gets Houston, who'll be a weaker playoff opponent, but then talk about it in the context of tanking. Wouldn't winning be the incentive, instead of tanking? Or did you mean the loser gets the Rockets?

I'll tell you this, Utah won't try to tank Wednesday. They're gunning for that 3rd seed and even have a shot at the 2nd seed if New Orleans loses tomorrow and then @ Dallas. But even if that doesn't happen, a first round series with home-court is pretty good for the Jazz, since they're nearly unbeatable at home. That would mean a 2nd round matchup with the Hornets, who the Jazz play extremely well against.

[mw_mw]

Originally Posted by Kim You are incorrect. Spend 5 minutes reading the other thread and you will understand then.

is there any ways that we can play the Suns?????
just curious

[H-townhero]

Kim, if things go as I forsee them going (Utah beating SA, I think) it will end up a 4 way tie breaker where they'll have to use the head-to-head rule:

utah

3-1 Spurs
2-1 Houston
2-1 Phoenix
7-3

houston

1-2 utah
2-2 spurs
2-2 suns
5-6

phoenix

3-1 spurs
2-2 rockets
1-2 utah
6-5

spurs

1-3 suns
2-2 houston
1-3 utah
5-7

Thus seeding:

#3 Utah
#4 Phoenix
#5 Houston
#6 Spurs

Divisional/Conference records don't come into play here since no %'s are the same.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by rpr52121 There is actually still a slim possibility of a 5 team tie between NO, SA, Utah, Phoenix, and Houston...

Which makes no difference b/c NO holds the tie breaker to become division champs which guarantees them top 4 and just makes it like there is a 4 way tie, but then Jazz are also champs so they get top 4 so it makes it like a 3 way tie which puts the Suns in the top 4. Then you separate and go to a 2 way tie for #5 which puts the Spurs in the 5th and Rockets in 6th. The Spurs are NOT tanking. They need to win to get home court. It's pretty much set in stone. Suns-Spurs and Rockets-Jazz. The Spurs Jazz game is all about home court with the Rockets rooting on the Spurs and the Suns rooting on the Jazz.

[H-townhero]

Dude, there's no tie for 5th. We'd win it automatically since we have the head to head advantage in a 2 way tie. There is no separation like you thinking. Look at the NBA rules.

[H-townhero]

advantage in a 4 way tie* type-o there.

[Kim]

It's all in the other thread, but I'll write it here for the sake of legit info.

Division Winners always have to be in the top 4.
Lakers, Jazz and Hornets will get top 4 spots (Hornets will beat the Clippers Tuesday night to clinch the division).

IF the Jazz beat the Spurs, that would mean the Spurs, Rockets, and Suns will all be 55-27.

Who gets the last top 4 spot? It would be the Suns, b/c they win the 3-way tie break.

So you then separate top 4 and bottom 4 and start over.
Lakers 1
Hornets 2
Jazz 3 (own tie break over Suns)
Suns 4

Spurs 5 (own tie break over Rockets)
Rockets 6
Mavs/Nugget 7 and 8

[Kim]

Originally Posted by H-townhero Dude, there's no tie for 5th. We'd win it automatically since we have the head to head advantage in a 2 way tie. There is no separation like you thinking. Look at the NBA rules.

Please read the other thread.

You must have 3 division winners in the top 4. Ties only come into account afterwards.

So your scenario leaves a 3-way tie. Then you go to 3 way tie break rules to determine who is the top among the 3.

Once that is done, it comes down to 2 teams. The 3-way tie doesn't determine the order of 3 teams. It only determines the top team. Then it becomes a 2-way tie between the bottom teams and that's why head to head is there.

Trust me. I've been doing this for a long time.

[H-townhero]

WRONG:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/...gnificent.html

Siler writes:

I'm not sure how exactly the NBA would break a four-way tie. The Jazz would have to be assured a top four seed as a division champion.

As far as individual tiebreakers go, the Spurs have a better division record than Houston, Phoenix owns the season series against San Antonio and Houston has a better conference record than Phoenix. Round and round we go.

If it comes down to conference record, the Jazz would finish 34-18, Houston 33-19, San Antonio 32-20 and Phoenix 31-21. The Jazz would play the Suns in the first round under this tiebreaker.

If it comes down to head-to-head against the other three teams, the Jazz are 7-3, Phoenix is 6-5, Houston is 5-6 and San Antonio is 4-8. The numbers are different because some teams were only scheduled to play three times this season.

The Jazz would play San Antonio in the first round under this tiebreaker. If San Antonio loses Monday and Wednesday, Utah and the Spurs would meet in the first round as well.

Of course, the Jazz also could lose Wednesday in San Antonio for the 21st consecutive time and settle for the No. 4 seed and a series with Houston.


Based on Siler's research a few paragraphs above, if those four teams end up 55-27, after the tie-breaks have been applied, the Lakers and Hornets would be followed in the third through sixth spots in the West with:

* Jazz
* Suns
* Rockets
* Spurs

Stop confusing people.

[H-townhero]

Originally Posted by Kim Please read the other thread. You must have 3 division winners in the top 4. Ties only come into account afterwards. So your scenario leaves a 3-way tie. Then you go to 3 way tie break rules to determine who is the top among the 3. Once that is done, it comes down to 2 teams. The 3-way tie doesn't determine the order of 3 teams. It only determines the top team. Then it becomes a 2-way tie between the bottom teams and that's why head to head is there. Trust me. I've been doing this for a long time.

You're wrong it DOES order all the teams, not just the top team.

[Kim]

Look man, please read the other thread. He doesn't know what he is talking about...the writer is just a guy, not an NBA tie break expert.



Seriously, please read the other thread.

[H-townhero]

and here's the rules to back it up:

More Than Two Teams Tied
In the case of a tie in regular season records involving more than two teams, the following criteria will be utilized in the following order:

1. Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
2. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in the same division).
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
4. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
5. Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents ("point differential").