The Torture President

mc mark · 03-09-2008, 11:27 AM

Yesterday George Bush had one last chance to change the course of his legacy and not go down in history as "The Torture President." Unfortunately he decided to seal his fate and vetoed the bill that would ban techniques that even the military now say is unconstitutional and against human decency.

Bush will now and forever be known as "The Torture President"

from today's NYTs --

Bush’s Veto of Bill on C.I.A. Tactics Affirms His Legacy

Refman · 03-09-2008, 11:59 AM

While I agree with you that Bush should have signed the ban, your disdain for Bush clouds your thoughts on the subject.

That waterboarding is unconstitutional only matters to the extent that we are waterboarding citizens or residents of the US. The constitution of the US does not extend rights to any other groups. Either you didn't know that, or you intentionally disregarded it in an effort to make your point.

And I seriously doubt that 10 years from now, waterboarding will even be mentioned in regards to Bush. People will talk about how he screwed up the economy, pandered to corporate interests, and kept us in Iraq way too long...but waterboarding will not even be mentioned.

I agree he should have signed the ban...but you're being a little melodramatic about this.

SamFisher · 03-09-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refman

ct.

That waterboarding is unconstitutional only matters to the extent that we are waterboarding citizens or residents of the US. The constitution of the US does not extend rights to any other groups. Either you didn't know that, or you intentionally disregarded it in an effort to make your point.

lol, no.

You should be disbarred if you think this.

bigtexxx · 03-09-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamFisher

lol, no.

Sam, what else have you planned for Brussels?

SamFisher · 03-09-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtexxx

Sam, what else have you planned for Brussels?

I plan on getting Neelie Kroes' autograph.

Jeffster · 03-09-2008, 12:49 PM

Good job again, Mr. President. Your legacy will be as one of the most consistent and strong presidents, never bowing down and kissing the feet of your narrow-minded critics.
.

Ottomaton · 03-09-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refman

And I seriously doubt that 10 years from now, waterboarding will even be mentioned in regards to Bush. People will talk about how he screwed up the economy, pandered to corporate interests, and kept us in Iraq way too long...but waterboarding will not even be mentioned.

Based on past experience, I don't think you have a firm grasp about just how fervently many of your fellow Americans feel about this. Personally, my narritive for the Bush administration will always be the disaster (9/11) results in Bush acting like a tyrant and dictator outside the bounds of the constitution (FISA violations, torture, fear-mongering, war with Iraq etc.).

The economy, etc. is always up and down. The only president that I can think of in the history of the country that is remembered first for the negative state of the economy is Herbert Hoover, and that really is only because there is not a whole lot else that is memorable about the man, IMO.

RocketMan Tex · 03-09-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottomaton

Personally, my narritive for the Bush administration will always be the disaster (9/11) results in Bush acting like a tyrant and dictator outside the bounds of the constitution (FISA violations, torture, fear-mongering, war with Iraq etc.).

Mine will be that, after 9-11, Bush had the entire world on our side. For Chrissakes, people in Tehran marched against terrorism in the week after 9-11.

He had a chance to unite the world against terrorism.

He utterly and completely blew the response to 9-11 by invading and occupying Iraq. Now the United States is hated around the world more than ever before, and it will take a monumental effort by the next President to fix it.

pippendagimp · 03-09-2008, 02:01 PM

I will always remember him fondly as the Grand Chimp

adoo · 03-09-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refman

And I seriously doubt that 10 years from now, waterboarding will even be mentioned in regards to Bush.

you don't have to wait 10 years before enemies of the US will be publicizing its "waterboarding" of American captives, a tic for tac

MR. MEOWGI · 03-09-2008, 03:37 PM

I have no problem waterboarding those freaks. Kill all the Muslim nutballs.

adoo · 03-09-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. MEOWGI

I have no problem waterboarding those freaks. Kill all the Muslim nutballs.

and they (terrorists) have no problem waterboarding American captives. where is it going to end. should the US, a civilized nation of law, stoop to the same low level as the terrorists.

CometsWin · 03-09-2008, 04:05 PM

Really Bush could be known as x number of different Presidents. The wanted Bin Laden dead or alive but gave up on looking for him President. The heck of a job Brownie getting water to the Superdome after 4 days President. The let's attack Iraq and screw up the war on terrorism President. The let's wiretap the entire country without a warrant President, not even a retroactive warrant... pssshaww we don't need no stinkin warrants.

I will miss the Letterman Presidential speeches segment though, funniest clips ever.

MR. MEOWGI · 03-09-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adoo

and they (terrorists) have no problem waterboarding American captives. where is it going to end. should the US, a civilized nation of law, stoop to the same low level as the terrorists.

It will never end. Kill or be killed.

MadMax · 03-09-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. MEOWGI

It will never end. Kill or be killed.

what happened to the shrimp?

Bandwagoner · 03-09-2008, 04:21 PM

I have to say I don't like terrorists, I don't like giving them the same rights as citizens (for trials and such) but waterboarding is fugged up.

adoo · 03-09-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CometsWin

Really Bush could be known as x number of different Presidents.

The heck of a job Brownie getting water to the Superdome after 4 days President. .

another one would be

the president that practices this

it's more important that I fly to San Diego, Ca to accept a gift (guitar) from the military top brass than to land in New Orleans to lend my presence to the rescue effort. So i'll just fly over New Orleans today and then go back tommorrow

Air Langhi · 03-09-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adoo

and they (terrorists) have no problem waterboarding American captives. where is it going to end. should the US, a civilized nation of law, stoop to the same low level as the terrorists.

We are better than that. An eye for an eye and we would all be blind. Without ethics and stuff like that how our we better than the terrorists.

KingCheetah · 03-09-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffster

Good job again, Mr. President. Your legacy will be as one of the most consistent and strong presidents, never bowing down and kissing the feet of your narrow-minded critics.
.

Congress with bipartisan support ?

Refman · 03-09-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. MEOWGI

I have no problem waterboarding those freaks. Kill all the Muslim nutballs.

And this line of thinking is exactly what the terrorists want. They want this to be about religion. They want us to kill and torture indiscriminately. This gives their cause further legitimacy in their eyes.