How bad does Rafer and JLIII have to play before you think VSpan deserves a shot?

[jopatmc]

Rafer is currently shooting 36.4% from the field and 36.1% from the 3 point line. In your opinion, how low do those percentages have to drop before VSpan warrants a look see?

Same thing with JLIII. He is basically playing the 10 minutes per game that Rafer is not playing at the point. He is currently shooting 25% from 3 and 41% from the field.

[DaDakota]

Apparently a lot worse.

:D

DD

[mag]

JVG is too stubborn to change his plan. He has demonstrated through the years that no matter how bad a player is doing he will stick with them no mather what. Just remember Rybo.

[durvasa]

I don't think it will just take Rafer's bad shooting. If he continues to suck from the field and the Rockets as a team struggle while he's on the court, then eventually JVG might bite the bullet and look elsewhere.

But, really, can we expect Spanoulis to shoot any better than Rafer? Spanoulis is 31% from the field on the season, and 20% from three. I don't recall his preseason numbers, but I don't think it was much better. We know that his turnovers will be very high. He can be a good defender at times, but he also fouls a lot.

I'd love to see what Spanoulis can do, but if we want to be pragmatic about it I don't know if playing him just to give him a look is the smartest decision right now. As fans, I think we tend to be somewhat reactionary. If the team struggles in some area, we want to seek out an instant, homerun solution. That's natural. But an actual coach doesn't have the luxury to think like that. Just arbitrarily mixing players together and hoping it all of sudden clicks isn't good coaching.

I think we probably have to look at our PG situation and resign ourselves to the fact that we don't really have any good options anywhere. We just have to go with what will hurt us the least (or, as JVG puts it, "gives us the best chance to win").

Originally Posted by mag JVG is too stubborn to change his plan. He has demonstrated through the years that no matter how bad a player is doing he will stick with them no mather what.

Unless he doesn't, in which case he's blamed for not giving players enough of a chance to succeed.

[RocketManJosh]

After VSpan's crying I'm surprised he is even allowed to sit on the bench. They wouldn't want to have to change his diaper in the middle of the game.

[mag]

I would like to see VSpan get a chance to play at his position for 10 min for at least 5 games. I am not totally sold on what JVG tried to prove the times he let him play as shooting guard. That is not his position.
After that, we could have a better idea what he can do for the team.

[DaDakota]

What V-Span should do is start by busting Rafer in practice, just outplay him, make it obvious....

If he can do that...he will play.

DD

[Patience]

Originally Posted by RocketManJosh After VSpan's crying I'm surprised he is even allowed to sit on the bench. They wouldn't want to have to change his diaper in the middle of the game.

I second this. Please add this choice to the poll:

"VSpan should not be allowed to sit on the bench"

[deshen]

I would see V-span on the court anytime rather than JL3

[Rocketeer]

Originally Posted by DaDakota What V-Span should do is start by busting Rafer in practice, just outplay him, make it obvious.... If he can do that...he will play. DD

If he could, shouldn't he be doing that since he got here?

[DaDakota]

Originally Posted by Rocketeer If he could, shouldn't he be doing that since he got here?

Perhaps, but I think it depends on how practices are run. I think the only chance you have to really do that is in preseason, once the season starts, there are very few full practices, as it is more about the next opponent etc.

DD

[deshen]

Originally Posted by DaDakota What V-Span should do is start by busting Rafer in practice, just outplay him, make it obvious.... If he can do that...he will play. DD

V-Span need to learn how to control the ball, too much tournover will not make him play much on the court.

[Dr of Dunk]

Originally Posted by mag JVG is too stubborn to change his plan. He has demonstrated through the years that no matter how bad a player is doing he will stick with them no mather what. Just remember Rybo.

Just remember VSpan.

[DaDakota]

Originally Posted by Dr of Dunk Just remember VSpan.

Maybe he should say ...VETERAN player.

JVG has stuck with some stinkers......especially at PG.


Someone brought up an interesting point, they said that JVG has never coached a creative PG, but has always prefered the safer ones.....

Is that true?

DD

[jopatmc]

I tell you what. If I were the opposing coach defensing against the Rox, I would trap McGrady when he crossed half court and force the ball away from him to Rafer and I'd let Rafer fire away out there repeatedly. I'd be hoping Rafer took A WHOLE LOTTA SHOTS.

First 10 games of the season, Rafer averaged 9.9 field goal attempts per game, shot 39% from the field and 41.6% from 3 point land, and 1.16 points per shot.

Second 10 games of the season, Rafer averaged 10.9 field goal attempts per game, shot 35% from the field, and 35.4% from 3 point land, and less than 1.02 points per shot.

Third games of the season, Rafer averaged 14.6 field goal attempts per game, shot 39% from the field, and 33% from 3 point land and 1.11 points per shot.

The last 11 games of the season, Rafer has averaged 18.6 field goal attempts per game, shot 33% from the field, and 36% from 3 point land and 0.90 points per shot.


It's a black hole. More shot attempts, less accuracy, lower points per shot, less efficiency.

PREDICTION: At this stage, it isn't going to get significantly better. The season is half over. His percentages will not improve but get worse as his stamina decreases with all the games under his belt towards the end of the season.

[durvasa]

Originally Posted by DaDakota Someone brought up an interesting point, they said that JVG has never coached a creative PG, but has always prefered the safer ones..... Is that true? DD

Define creative. He coached Steve Francis, the quintessential "unsafe" PG.

I don't think there's any doubt, JVG likes PGs who are safe with the ball and know how to run a team effectively. That's the number one criteria. Defense is probably number two. Then shot selection. Then shooting%.

[jopatmc]

Originally Posted by DaDakota Maybe he should say ...VETERAN player. JVG has stuck with some stinkers......especially at PG. Someone brought up an interesting point, they said that JVG has never coached a creative PG, but has always prefered the safer ones..... Is that true? DD

Childs and Charlie Ward in NY. Then he gets rid of Francis after one season. And brings in Ward, Tyrone Lue, a dilapidated over the hill Rod Strickland, Mark Jackson, and Ruck Brunson. Then we trade MJames for Rafe.

You tell me?

[A_3PO]

For this season, a trade is the answer, not V-Span. I don't mind him getting some of Rafer's minutes but if we intend to make a run, we need to bring another PG in.

[durvasa]

Originally Posted by jopatmc I tell you what. If I were the opposing coach defensing against the Rox, I would trap McGrady when he crossed half court and force the ball away from him to Rafer and I'd let Rafer fire away out there repeatedly. I'd be hoping Rafer took A WHOLE LOTTA SHOTS. First 10 games of the season, Rafer averaged 9.9 field goal attempts per game, shot 39% from the field and 41.6% from 3 point land, and 1.16 points per shot. Second 10 games of the season, Rafer averaged 10.9 field goal attempts per game, shot 35% from the field, and 35.4% from 3 point land, and less than 1.02 points per shot. Third games of the season, Rafer averaged 14.6 field goal attempts per game, shot 39% from the field, and 33% from 3 point land and 1.11 points per shot. The last 11 games of the season, Rafer has averaged 18.6 field goal attempts per game, shot 33% from the field, and 36% from 3 point land and 0.90 points per shot. It's a black hole. More shot attempts, less accuracy, lower points per shot, less efficiency. PREDICTION: At this stage, it isn't going to get significantly better. The season is half over. His percentages will not improve but get worse as his stamina decreases with all the games under his belt towards the end of the season.

That's a great post. And I think that's precisely what a lot of teams are doing late in games. Rafer is getting all those "good shots" because teams want him to take them. I think Rafer should continue to take the open 3-pointers. If he shoots 35% on them, that's still the equivalent of over 50% on 2-point shots. But, more importantly, if they give him the drive, he needs to penetrate deep and look to pass, then look to draw a foul, and only as a very last option attempt those stinky floaters. For a guy who gets decent penetration fairly frequently during games, it's stunning how seldom he gets himself to the line. That's one way he could greatly improve his efficiency.

[jopatmc]

Originally Posted by durvasa That's a great post. And I think that's precisely what a lot of teams are doing late in games. Rafer is getting all those "good shots" because teams want him to take them. I think Rafer should continue to take the open 3-pointers. If he shoots 35% on them, that's still the equivalent of over 50% on 2-point shots. But, more importantly, if they give him the drive, he needs to penetrate deep and look to pass, then look to draw a foul, and only as a very last option attempt those stinky floaters. For a guy who gets decent penetration fairly frequently during games, it's stunning how seldom he gets himself to the line. That's one way he could greatly improve his efficiency.

So, why isn't he doing it already. Rafer doesn't like contact. He avoids it. He doesn't try to create it. And the better defenses are just going to rotate to him and force him to take contested, quicker shots or dribble the ball and take the low percentage 2 point shot, which drives his efficiency into the toilet bowl. The problem when they give him the drive is they play him for the pass. They know he is looking to dish because he sux at finishing.

You know he isn't going to maintain 35% from 3. Everybody's percentages go down towards the end of the season when their legs are dead and they are fighting tougher defenses who are fighting for playoff positioning. He's gonna lose another couple points off his 3 point average and that is going to equate to him shooting around 31%, possibly less, for the 2nd half of the season from the 3 point line.

Rafer's only chance to improve his percentages is to get Yao back so Rafer doesn't have to get up but maybe 10 shots a game. There again is another reason we should try VSpan right now, with Yao out injured. Do you realize how bad and inefficient 0.90 points per shot is? It is absolutely horrible. Rafer can't be the 2nd option when Yao is out. It's just not his game man.