LG to Launch Dual-format Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD Player in Early 2007

[RC Cola]

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003408.html

It was bound to happen: In the mess known as the high-def format wars, eventually, it was clear a manufacturer would cross party lines and release a single player capable of handling both Blu-ray Discs and HD DVD discs. The question wasn't if; it was a question of when. LG Electronics is the first to cross that line: The company has just announced it will be launching the first dual-format high-definition disc player at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas next week. The LG press release issued in Korea early Thursday morning is short on details--the player will launch in "early 2007", but beyond that, we have no information on pricing--but that's of little consequence for now. I imagine the details will become clear by Sunday, when LG holds its press conference at CES. LG stated it was considering a dual-format player at the CeBIT show last March, but the company has been quiet about its progress until now. The company is the first to formally announce a dual-format player; prior to this, Ricoh and NEC had both announced they had developed components that could read both Blu-ray and HD DVD media, but neither had announced actual products. Samsung had also made rumblings about coming out with a dual-format player, but the company backtracked on those reports early last year. The LG announcement dramatically alters the competitive landscape for Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. The mere announcement of a dual-format player could stall the market for high-definition players and discs, as consumers anticipate the dual-format player's arrival. A dual-format player would offer consumers a hedge against obsolence, in the event one of the disc formats dies out over time. And once the dual-format player does come out, it could ignite the market for high-definition players and discs, a market that's still in its infancy. Price will likely play a big role, though, in the dual-format player's success. If the player is expensive--and, certainly, I expect it to carry a premium over a standalone player, at least at launch--its high price may deter consumers from buying right now. However, if the dual-format player's premium is an acceptable one to consumers, then the player could take off--in turn driving consumers to buy movies in high-definition, without having to worry about which studios are backing which disc format. However, while a dual-format player will help consumers worried about buying into the wrong format, it won't help content producers. Dual-format players will remain a rarity, for at least the next year. If dual-format players do become the norm, studios will be faced with a quandary: Continue to support both formats, a costly endeavor, or release new and catalog content in just one of the disc formats--thereby foregoing support of those early adopters who bought into whichever disc format falls by the wayside. Are you itching to buy a high-def disc player? Does news of a dual-format player make you more likely to buy a high-def disc player in the next year?

[RC Cola]

Great timing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/te...in&oref=slogin

New Disc May Sway DVD Wars Consumers wary of buying new high-definition DVD players because of a technology war reminiscent of the days of Betamax versus VHS will soon have a new kind of DVD that might make the decision less daunting. Warner Brothers, which helped popularize the DVD more than a decade ago, plans to announce next week a single videodisc that can play films and television programs in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, the rival DVD technologies. Warner Brothers, a division of Time Warner, plans to formally announce the new disc, which it is calling a Total HD disc, at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas on Tuesday. Two rival camps introduced high-definition DVD players last year: a consortium called Blu-ray, backed by Sony and others, and a group called HD-DVD, backed by Toshiba and Microsoft. Retail and media executives say this clash of corporate titans and their incompatible machines has left some consumers bewildered and has slowed the introduction of what is intended to be the next great thing in home entertainment. Executives at Time Warner and its Hollywood subsidiary hope to spur sales of new DVD players and movies by gaining the support of retailers and cajoling rival studios into making their film and television libraries available in both formats on a single disc. In addition to reviving the ghost of the war that marked the introduction of videocassettes in the 1980s, the high-definition battle has been exacerbated by the decision of several major studios to support only one of the technologies. Thus, for instance, a copy of 20th Century Fox’s “Ice Age: The Meltdown” is available only on Blu-ray, while Universal’s “The Break-Up” can be viewed only on a disc and player built with HD-DVD technology. Barry M. Meyer, the chairman and chief executive of Warner Brothers, said in an interview that the company came up with the Total HD disc after concluding that neither Blu-ray nor HD-DVD was going the way of Betamax anytime soon. “The next best thing is to recognize that there will be two formats and to make that not a negative for the consumer,” Mr. Meyer said. “We felt that the most significant constituency for us to satisfy was the consumer first, and the retailer second. The retailer wants to sell hardware and doesn’t want to be forced into stocking two formats for everything. This is ideal for them.” In a world besotted with gadgetry, few consumer products have generated as much excitement — and head-scratching — as high-definition television. Flat-screen, high-definition TVs have been flying off the shelves for the last year and are now as common in homes as coffee pots. Yet few people are actually watching superclear high-definition programming. Part of the disconnect is the lack of high-definition programming on cable and satellite television, and the additional outlay for decoder boxes and premium channels needed to get it. The rival movie player technologies have further blurred the outlook for high definition. Richard Greenfield, an analyst at Pali Capital, predicted in a recent report that this would be the first year since the introduction of the DVD that consumer spending on the discs would decline, putting pressure on the studios that rely heavily on them for profits. For now, Sony; Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, which is owned by private equity firms in partnership with the Comcast Corporation and Sony; 20th Century Fox, a division of the News Corporation; and Walt Disney Pictures are all exclusively releasing their DVDs in Blu-ray. Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric, is releasing only in HD-DVD. Warner and Paramount Pictures, a division of Viacom, are issuing DVDs in both formats. Behind these allegiances are complex strategic questions revolving around everything from manufacturing costs to profit margins, debates over each format’s technical strengths and weaknesses, and how these players relate to Microsoft and Sony’s video-game strategies. (Blu-ray players are built into the new Sony PlayStation 3, while Microsoft is selling HD-DVD drives that attach to its Xbox 360.) Another wrinkle is plans by LG Electronics, and possibly other gadget makers attending the Las Vegas conference, to announce new DVD players with drives for both formats; however, such players will most likely be initially more expensive than other players. Jeffrey L. Bewkes, the president of Time Warner, said the Total HD disc has a better chance of catching on than dual players. Research commissioned by Warner indicates that consumers are willing to pay several dollars more than current high-definition DVDs for a disc that works on both players. At the Web site for Best Buy, Warner’s “Superman Returns” DVD was selling yesterday for $19.99 in its standard format, $29.99 for Blu-ray and $34.99 for HD-DVD. Still, it is not clear whether news of Warner’s Total HD disc would convince the studio heads who are backing one format or the other to release their wares in both. Sony, of course, has placed a big bet on Blu-ray’s success and does not want to relive the sting of Betamax’s defeat. The number of studios committed solely to Blu-ray has been seen as a competitive edge, particularly because HD-DVD came to market several months ahead of Blu-ray. And HD-DVD’s boosters say they doubt gaming fans who have been snapping up the just-introduced PlayStation 3 will take advantage of its built-in Blu-ray player and buy movies as well as video games. In recent interviews, executives at Fox and Disney were unequivocal in their support for Blu-ray. They said they believed that releasing DVDs in both formats would only prolong confusion and the emergence of a winning format. “I think the fastest way to end the format war is through decisiveness and strength,” said Bob Chapek, the president of Buena Vista Worldwide Entertainment, the home video arm of Walt Disney. Like other Blu-ray proponents and partners, Mr. Chapek said that he favors Blu-ray because of its greater storage capacity and other attributes. HD-DVD offers the same vivid picture by storing less information on its disc, which means fewer minutes of video and other features. However, among its perceived advantages, HD-DVD players are less expensive and also play standard DVDs, while Blu-ray players do not. (Note by me: Um...yeah they do. I really hate mainstream journalism sometimes) Because of manufacturing complexities, the Total HD disc will not contain a standard format version, said Kevin Tsujihara, the president of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group. However, several months ago the company filed patents for a new disc incorporating all three formats, which it could produce in the future. Mr. Tsujihara described the new disc as an elegant way for studios to make their content available more widely “in a way that is not conceding defeat” for the format they have been backing. In the short term, Total HD would actually add to the number of formats retailers will have to stock, raising it from three to four. However, Irynne V. MacKay, senior vice president for entertainment products at Circuit City, said she supported the idea because it took pressure off consumers puzzling over which format to invest in. “The simpler the future is for us, the better,” said Ms. MacKay.

[count_dough-ku]

A quality dual format player wouldn't suck too much. I can put that in the living room and keep the HD-A1 and PS3 in the bedroom.

And just in case the LG dual player ends up being too expensive, Toshiba is rumored to be announcing a $299.99 HD-DVD player at CES. It'll only be a matter of time before Blu-ray follows suit.

[A_3PO]

This format war is so messed up. Neither side has a compelling product because the current DVD format is still very attractive to consumers. It's like they are killing each other over some bread crumbs falling from the table while ignoring the table itself, which is loaded with a banquet.

Not reaching a deal on a joint format was a very bad business decision for Sony & Microsoft.

[A-Train]

I don't think both formats can survive. Most people learned their lesson from Betamax vs. VHS and will wait for one of the formats to die before upgrading to High Def. movies...

[RC Cola]

Originally Posted by A_3PO Not reaching a deal on a joint format was a very bad business decision for Sony & Microsoft.

More so Sony (plus Panasonic probably) & Toshiba than Sony & Microsoft. I think there might have been talks to create a joint format before Microsoft even formally backed either format (they were format neutral about a year or 2 ago, while both formats have been in development for years). While a big part of the HD DVD camp, they don't really have the power to make that decision AFAIK. They could have remained neutral (or even backed Blu-ray), but we'd probably still have a format war.

I do agree that the format war isn't helping either format really succeed. It would have been difficult to make either format mainstream even if there was no format war. I remember reports from a while back (summer of 05 IIRC) that suggested that these companies were coming close to a unified format, which made me happy. Then talks broke off, and here we are.

[RC Cola]

The LG player will retail for $1200. More info here:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/l...s-press-event/

"The Super Multi Blue Player can play both formats with one tray." The BH100 model will be available this quarter, at a suggested retail price of $1,199. True HD, VC-1 / H.264, DD+/ DTS HD HDMI Out, Optical / 5.1 channel out -- no mention of HDMI 1.3, but maybe that's just a given. "As a companion product, we're also producing a Super Multi Blue Drive for the PC." $1,199, reads and writes everything but HD DVD, looks like Blu-ray still is first in LG's heart.

11:30 - "That's the end of my brief presentation, and now we'll start a demo. Here's Mr. Kim." Batman Begins is playing on HD DVD, looks pretty sharp. Don't ruin the ending! Mr. Kim is showing of the flashy menu, looks pretty simple, and doesn't get in the way of the movie playback. "Now we'll switch to Blu-ray disc. It'll take over one minute, so let's look at the PC drive." Oh look, it looks just like any PC player. "It takes about 25 seconds to load a Blu-ray disc. This is actually the fastest load time on the market." It takes foreeever. Oh, and here comes those anti-piracy warnings. "And of course, there's 30 seconds of this. You can not fast forward." *Laughter* And here comes Superman on Blu-ray. Mr. Kim's favorite scene is scene 12. "It just occurred to me that Superman, with his blue suit and red cape might be the perfect spokesman for Blu-ray and HD DVD." *Laughter and clapping... good times* And that's it for the demo, now it's time for question and answers. 11:37 - "Full interactive support?" Not quite. "Because of limited hardware, most everything essential is supported, but not all IHD features." "Does the PC drive also have that limitation?" "The PC drive can handle all the IHD features." As the questions continue to fire, it looks like HDMI is merely of the 1.2 variety, retail availability will be widespread, and they'll try to pump out as many of these as they can to meet whatever consumer demand there may be. "Is it possible for other manufacturers to create a dual format player?" "We're not currently engaged in any talks, but we're welcome to the idea of licensing the technology." Engadget HD's Ben Drawbaugh asked about networking support, but it looks like no dice. (After taking some pictures it does indead of a ethernet port) Price will go down with economies of scale, but they're hoping to be within 20% of other Blu-ray players.

[bejezuz]

All that matters is which format Blockbuster picks in the end. They won't decide until one of the formats takes a foothold.

I'm guessing HD will win, because Sony never seems to back the right format (see minidisc, etc.) Everything Sony touches ends up becoming proprietary because they always try to upsell stuff and lock consumers in. No love for Sony any more, no love.

[Brando2101]

Originally Posted by bejezuz All that matters is which format Blockbuster picks in the end. They won't decide until one of the formats takes a foothold.

If the market is split, Blockbuster will support both formats. Sony lost the betamax war because they did not allow any other company to produce betamax players. They learned their lesson.

BluRay holds a lot more information and has a much more marketing friendly name. Sony dominates the video game market and most gamers are in the 18-35 year old demographic. That means you are giving blu ray players to the group that the world cares about the most.

Come on guys, Sony is a much different company in 2006 than it was in 1980. They have the support of 7 of the 8 big movie studios. If the 2 can't coexist, why would HDDVD win this war?

[Rokkit]

Originally Posted by Brando2101 If the market is split, Blockbuster will support both formats. Sony lost the betamax war because they did not allow any other company to produce betamax players. They learned their lesson. BluRay holds a lot more information and has a much more marketing friendly name. Sony dominates the video game market and most gamers are in the 18-35 year old demographic. That means you are giving blu ray players to the group that the world cares about the most. Come on guys, Sony is a much different company in 2006 than it was in 1980. They have the support of 7 of the 8 big movie studios. If the 2 can't coexist, why would HDDVD win this war?

Brilliant!

I see this format war is decided, we can all move on.

[RC Cola]

Originally Posted by bejezuz All that matters is which format Blockbuster picks in the end. They won't decide until one of the formats takes a foothold.

Blockbuster, like other retailers, is stocking both formats I believe.

Originally Posted by bejezuz I'm guessing HD will win, because Sony never seems to back the right format (see minidisc, etc.) Everything Sony touches ends up becoming proprietary because they always try to upsell stuff and lock consumers in. No love for Sony any more, no love.

Sony co-developed CDs, and were pretty big in getting DVD accepted (particularly against DivX IIRC). They've backed a number of formats that have succeeded.

[RC Cola]

Not directly related to the dual-format topic going on, but Toshiba announced a new HD DVD player that will retail for $600:
http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/16826.html

Toshiba, coming off of the recent launch of the HD-A2 and HD-AX2 second generation HD DVD players, has announced a third new HD DVD player, the HD-A20, at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas. The HD-A20 will retail for $599 and output content at 1080p, according to Jodi Sally, VP marketing for Toshiba's Digital AV group, who spoke at the company's press conference this morning. The HD-A20 will handle HD DVD, DVD and CD content and outputs at 720p, 1080i and 1080p resolutions. No specific date was given for the launch of the player, but the company expects it to be available this spring. At the press conference, Toshiba announced that there have been an estimated 60,000 HD DVD units sold so far to consumers, and that the HD-A2 and HD-AX2 are "currently selling very well already," says Sally. Stay tuned for more details on this new player.

Not sure if this is their major announcement, or if they have something else up their sleeve too (like the ~$300 player count_dough-ku mentioned earlier).

[moestavern19]

good points Brando...


I expect Blu-Ray to emerge as the victor in this next-gen war.

[VesceySux]

All that matters is which format the porn industry is backing. Whoever gets teh pr0n is teh w1nn3r.

[RC Cola]

The porn industry is split. I wrongly said that they were behind Blu-ray in a previous thread, but a porn studio just recently released some movie(s) on HD DVD (the first in the US for Blu-ray or HD DVD IIRC...think there is some porn in Japan on Blu-ray though...not sure which has the bigger impact).

[count_dough-ku]

I really don't like the load time of the dual format player. 25 seconds to load a disc is only a few seconds faster than the Toshiba HD-A1. And it's much longer than the PS3 which usually takes about 5 seconds.

Couple that with the $1200 price tag and it might actually be wiser to get the next gen players from Toshiba and Samsung instead. Combined, the two players would actually cost 100 bucks less than the LG player.

[bejezuz]

Blockbuster stocks both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD NOW, but they won't forever. Just like they phased out VHS for DVD.

As far as which wins out, price beats features every time. Just ask BetaMax on that one. It'll be 5 years before DVDs aren't the leading format anyway, so we've got a LONG time before this format war gets into full gear. Until then, both of these formats are just the new laser disk. High-end only, no impact on the average consumer.

[A_3PO]

People with more money than sense are the only ones who will pay $1200 for LG's dual-format player.