US evangelist leads the millions seeking a battle with Islam

tigermission1 · 08-11-2006, 12:13 PM

It's truly scary how these people think. They're pro-war and desperately want to bring about Armageddon, seeking a clash of civilizations, not trying to avoid it.

There are millions upon millions of Americans who think this way, and if some of our influential leaders in D.C. are of the same mold, then the whole world is doomed...

US evangelist leads the millions seeking a battle with Islam

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/wmid105.xml

By Alec Russell in Washington

Anyone who wants to understand why Israel has such unwavering support from the United States should speak to one man.

Fiery television evangelist Pastor John Hagee has emerged as the rallying voice for thousands of American Christians who believe Israel is doing God's work in a "war of good versus evil".

When he strode on to a stage in Washington last month, he was cheered to the rafters by 3,500 prominent evangelicals - as well as by Israel's ambassador to America, a former Israeli chief of staff and a host of US congressmen of both parties.

"After 25 years of hammering away at the truth on national television, millions of people have come to see the truth of the word of God," Mr Hagee told The Daily Telegraph. "There is literally a groundswell of support for Israel in the USA among evangelicals."

Twenty-five years ago, Mr Hagee was denounced as a heretic when he urged his fellow preachers to speak out in support of Israel. He also met with huge suspicion from Jews who thought that anti-Semitism was the standard evangelical belief.

When he persevered and hosted a "night to honour Israel" in his hometown, San Antonio, there was a bomb threat and panicked Christian followers ran for the door.

But today most of America's 60 million Christian evangelicals, who make up about a quarter of the US electorate and the essence of the President's "base", are behind Mr Bush's pro-Israeli position and are pushing for a showdown with Iran. As many as half of those are Christian Zionists.

Mr Hagee said: "What we have done is united all of this evangelical horsepower and said, 'We're not just going to Washington to stand on the grass and sing Amazing Grace. We're going into the halls of Congress to see the senators and to see the congressmen face-to-face and to speak to them about our concerns for Israel'."

His claim of political clout is no idle boast. The President sent a message of support praising him for "spreading the hope of God's Love and the universal gift of freedom". They met several times when Mr Bush was governor of Texas.

America has long identified with Israel against its Arab foes. This backing has been shored up in Washington by the influential Israeli lobby. It also reflects a cultural affinity which is greater in the wake of the September 11 attacks: for most Americans, Israel is on the front line against terrorism.

Another key factor in this bond, however, is Christian Zionism: a booming movement based on the idea that Israel's travails fulfil Biblical prophecy and are a forerunner of the battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming.

As the head of Christians United for Israel, an organisation linking hundreds of US evangelical leaders, it is no exaggeration to say that Mr Hagee is one of Israel's most influential supporters.

Outside his mega-church is a facsimile "Wailing Wall". Inside on a flagpole is the Israeli flag and tributes from Israeli visitors, including prime minister Ehud Olmert, who came several times when he was mayor of Jerusalem.

In his recent book, Jerusalem Countdown - A Warning to the World, Mr Hagee seeks a showdown between Islam and the West. "This is a religious war that Islam cannot and must not win," he writes. "The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching... Rejoice and be exceedingly glad the best is yet to be."

He concedes it was a "difficult mountain to climb" to persuade evangelicals to back Israel. Many dispute his contention that some Jews can "find favour with God". Traditionally, evangelicals have argued that Jews will have to convert or face a double Holocaust at the battle of Armageddon.

MadMax · 08-11-2006, 12:34 PM

i'm so freaked out by this stuff. and i can't find anything about it that has to do with Jesus Christ.

RocketMan Tex · 08-11-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

i'm so freaked out by this stuff. and i can't find anything about it that has to do with Jesus Christ.

Yep, and as a Jew, what freaks me out are Jews that embrace this sort of thing without seeing it for what it really is. A friend of mine works for the Jewish Federation, and adores Pastor Hagee..."he's such a true friend of Israel"...this led to a hour long argument with me.

tinman · 08-11-2006, 12:53 PM

they need to settle all this on the basketball court. that's why i believe in the NBA and that it could solve world problems.

MadMax · 08-11-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex

Yep, and as a Jew, what freaks me out are Jews that embrace this sort of thing without seeing it for what it really is. A friend of mine works for the Jewish Federation, and adores Pastor Hagee..."he's such a true friend of Israel"...this led to a hour long argument with me.

ugh...wow.

honestly, i think hagee thinks he's being a true friend to Israel. but i also think his vision of Israel is that of a military nation...not as the people. does that make sense? so ultimately his only help or support is in the vain of supporting more war to bring about the end.

Texas Stoke · 08-11-2006, 01:04 PM

What a glorious time for real leaders like Hagee to witness the apocalypse from the luxurious and comfort of ones own home, paid and provided for by all the sheeppeople who bought his books.

A man of the word, from either religon, kicking back, checking his rolex, in his slippers, a glass of holy wine on the table, watching young men spill their blood, and actually getting pleasure out of chaos and suffering because to him it is a necessary evil to bring on a better ideal, a utopia, a prophet, a lord, or whatever. What a man. I really love these courageous souls.

Mr. Brightside · 08-11-2006, 01:04 PM

Something along the lines of "enemies enemy is my friend" is taking place here.

RocketMan Tex · 08-11-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Brightside

Something along the lines of "enemies enemy is my friend" is taking place here.

Exactly

RocketMan Tex · 08-11-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

ugh...wow.

honestly, i think hagee thinks he's being a true friend to Israel. but i also think his vision of Israel is that of a military nation...not as the people. does that make sense? so ultimately his only help or support is in the vain of supporting more war to bring about the end.

I agree with you, and that is precisely what our argument was about. He is more pro-armageddon than he is pro-Israel.

DaDakota · 08-11-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex

I agree with you, and that is precisely what our argument was about. He is more pro-armageddon than he is pro-Israel.

He is a moronic idiot !

StupidMoniker · 08-11-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Russel

for most Americans, Israel is on the front line against terrorism.

Count me in this group.

Deckard · 08-11-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

ugh...wow.

honestly, i think hagee thinks he's being a true friend to Israel. but i also think his vision of Israel is that of a military nation...not as the people. does that make sense? so ultimately his only help or support is in the vain of supporting more war to bring about the end.

More like war without end.

Keep D&D Civil.

MR. MEOWGI · 08-11-2006, 02:36 PM

This is where Bible literalism leads to.

tigermission1 · 08-11-2006, 02:40 PM

The issue here is that their support for Israel is solely for the fulfillment of a 'prophecy', which says that a third of Jews will convert while the other two-thirds will be slaughtered; I am not sure how some Israeli and Jewish leaders would be comfortable with aligning themselves with people who have this type of worldview; I guess it's a matter of political convenience...

Anyways, the point I wanted to make here was that there are people (powerful people) on both sides of the conflict who are actively pushing for a confrontation. Radicals from all sides are pushing for a conflict, dreaming of a 'grand battle' that will surely wipe out the majority of living beings on this earth (not just humans).

MadMax · 08-11-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. MEOWGI

This is where Bible literalism leads to.

to be honest, i don't see it as literalism. i see it as missing the context of the Old Testament.

Saint Louis · 08-11-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketMan Tex

Yep, and as a Jew, what freaks me out are Jews that embrace this sort of thing without seeing it for what it really is. A friend of mine works for the Jewish Federation, and adores Pastor Hagee..."he's such a true friend of Israel"...this led to a hour long argument with me.

I bet Pastor Hagee is a big fan of Metallica's "Kill'em All" CD. He probably plops in the CD, puts on the headphones and then watches CNN live from the Middel East.

MR. MEOWGI · 08-11-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

to be honest, i don't see it as literalism. i see it as missing the context of the Old Testament.

The literal mindset is why they miss it. That mindset can not deal with allegory and symbolism etc.

I would bet that 99% of the "Rapture Readies" are creationists also.

JuanValdez · 08-11-2006, 04:07 PM

I don't see the literalism connection either. He may be a literalist, but I don't think that approach necessarily brings you to the conclusions he's come to.

On that, I don't think I really understand what it is he does believe. The article doesn't go into a whole lot of depth, and journalists are generally very bad at comprehending and writing on theology anyway. I wonder if he's portrayed fairly.

MadMax · 08-11-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuanValdez

I don't see the literalism connection either. He may be a literalist, but I don't think that approach necessarily brings you to the conclusions he's come to.

On that, I don't think I really understand what it is he does believe. The article doesn't go into a whole lot of depth, and journalists are generally very bad at comprehending and writing on theology anyway. I wonder if he's portrayed fairly.

i'm familiar with him. i can't say i've ever read a book or something. he's very big on ushering in the end times.

MadMax · 08-11-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR. MEOWGI

The literal mindset is why they miss it. That mindset can not deal with allegory and symbolism etc.

I would bet that 99% of the "Rapture Readies" are creationists also.

i think that's partially correct. but i'm just saying they don't understand the hebrew context...they see every statement made as apocalyptic because that's all they're filtering for.