[ESPN]- The Untouchables, T-Mac 13th, Yao 4th

[askball]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/060707

13. Tracy McGrady
Peaked as an offensive player three or four years ago -- he's not as productive or efficient as Kobe, Wade, LeBron or Arenas, and not even remotely as durable as those guys OR Pierce. Even when healthy, his back worries him enough that he settles for too many jumpers and 3s (over the past three seasons, he shot just 42 percent on the field and his FT attempts dropped significantly). On the flip side, he has played 25 career playoff games and averaged a 30-7-6. Could you win a title with T-Mac, Yao and a bunch of role players? Absolutely. That's why he's not going anywhere.

4. Yao Ming
Was making The Leap after the All-Star Break (25.7 points and 11.6 boards per game) before breaking his foot in early April. What a shame. And we forget that he's only 25 -- for instance, Shaq peaked at 28, Hakeem peaked at 30, David Robinson peaked at 29, Ewing and Moses peaked at 27, Kareem peaked with his almost unprecedented triple-whammy at age 33 (an MVP season, Finals MVP and award-winning cameo as Roger Murdock in "Airplane" in 1980), Paul Mokeski's mustache/perm combo peaked at 28, Mike Gminski's beard peaked at 29, and Shawn Bradley didn't peak as a dunking test dummy until 28. True centers take awhile. Everyone forgets this. We're getting a 28-12 from Yao one of these years. It's coming.

[mrm32]

I would truly like both of them to finish their careers off in Houston. They are the the deciding factors of where this franchise is heading in the future, especially Yao, because I believe T-Mac will be done in about 5 years, then Yao will need to be able to carry this team.

[murphy77]

Oh Yeah - I agree with the column. Neither one of them are going anywhere anytime soon (if ever). Tracy McGrady and Yao both like where they are and both believe with the right pieces they could take this team to a championship - assuming they both remain healthy for the majority of the season.

[cenbo416]

Yao is in "Completely and Utterly Untouchable" group, actually.

[uchlha]

on a side note, why does that advertisement show rudy gay next to an advertisement for the rockets? and then right below is shane battier D: should be one or the other only D:

oh well

[A_3PO]

At last, a Bill Simmons article short enough to finish reading.

[krosfyah]

TMac is untouchable for different reasons ...I hate to say. We'd trade Tmac in a second if we thought could get equal value in return.

He is a max player so nobody is going to give us equal value given his back unless its like the Quitten-Portland trade ...and we are not that desperate to take 6 scrubs. If we could trade TMac for Wade, Kobe or James we'd be fools to turn it down but they'd be fools to even offer it.

I love TMac and hope he gets a healthy year but don't we all hold our breath everytime TMac falls down?

Yao? No way in hell we trade him for anybody in the league right now. We wouldn't even trade Yao for LeBron.

[No Worries]

40. Tayshaun Prince, Caron Butler (tie)
39. Chris Kaman
38. Boris Diaw
37. Emeka Okafor
36. Andrew Bogut
35. Josh Smith
34. Ron Artest
33. Rip Hamilton
32. Tony Parker
31. Josh Howard
30. Michael Redd
29. Andrei Kirilenko
28. Kirk Hinrich
27. Shaun Livingston
26. Ray Allen
25. Chauncey Billups
24. Allen Iverson
23. Jermaine O'Neal
22. Pau Gasol
21. Shawn Marion
20. Manu Ginobili
19. Vince Carter
18. Paul Pierce
17. Chris Bosh
16. Chris Paul
15. Carmelo Anthony
14. Shaquille O'Neal
13. Tracy McGrady
12. Kevin Garnett
11. Elton Brand
10. Gilbert Arenas
9. Kobe Bryant
8. Steve Nash
7. Amare Stoudemire
6. Dwight Howard
5. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Yao Ming
3. Tim Duncan
2. LeBron James
1. Dwyane Wade

[A_3PO]

Originally Posted by krosfyah TMac is untouchable for different reasons ...I hate to say. We'd trade Tmac in a second if we thought could get equal value in return. He is a max player so nobody is going to give us equal value given his back unless its like the Quitten-Portland trade ...and we are not that desperate to take 6 scrubs. If we could trade TMac for Wade, Kobe or James we'd be fools to turn it down but they'd be fools to even offer it. I love TMac and hope he gets a healthy year but don't we all hold our breath everytime TMac falls down? Yao? No way in hell we trade him for anybody in the league right now. We wouldn't even trade Yao for LeBron.

If he was locked up long term, I'd definitely take LeBron and give up Yao. Hands down! Wade would be a tough call and I think Simmons is wrong for putting TD ahead of Yao.

[Lil Pun]

I agree with these rankings. I just finished reading the whole article on ESPN.

[jmwilliamson]

5. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Yao Ming
3. Tim Duncan
2. LeBron James
1. Dwyane Wade

I'd honestly put Yao above Tim Duncan and probably Dwyane Wade. I know he's unbelievable, but it seems to me there are anywhere from three to six players in the league who are comparable to Wade in terms of skillset and production, and if you go back through the history of the league there have always been players comparable to him. Yao Ming, on the other hand, is a combination of size and skill that has NEVER been seen before. Yao Ming has no peers. I actually think LeBron James is in much rarer company than Dwyane Wade historically. I know it's hard to put Yao Ming before Wade and LeBron, but he might be more valuable right now. Certainly if he duplicates the second half of the season over the course of this next season he'll be on the top of all of these lists.

[Rasselas]

Anyone else notice that Bill Simmons just started getting more and more "real estate" over at ESPN? Now he has his own photo, with "Bill Simmons" in large font, on the front-page of ESPN at all times. And whenever he has a new article, it's displayed prominently as the site's cover story.

Which is fine by me. Simmons is my favorite sports writer. There isn't even a close second. He's only right 50% of the time, but he's entertaining damn near 100% of the time. Which is more than I can say for just about every other sports writer.

(Like, Jonathan Fiegen, say, whose stats are 30% and 0%).

[krosfyah]

Originally Posted by A_3PO If he was locked up long term, I'd definitely take LeBron and give up Yao. Hands down! Wade would be a tough call and I think Simmons is wrong for putting TD ahead of Yao.

A dominant big man takes longer to develop but once in their prime, nobody can stop them. Chamberlin, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq. At their prime were all the tops of the game.

A dominant big man beats a dominant guard 9x outta 10. Even the Jordan Bulls got lucky they never had to face the Rockets in the finals when Dream was at his peak.

Also don't forget, Yao's marketing prospects. LaBron is marketable too but I'd take Yao over LeBron here too.

[stonegate_archer]

Originally Posted by jmwilliamson 5. Dirk Nowitzki 4. Yao Ming 3. Tim Duncan 2. LeBron James 1. Dwyane Wade I'd honestly put Yao above Tim Duncan and probably Dwyane Wade. I know he's unbelievable, but it seems to me there are anywhere from three to six players in the league who are comparable to Wade in terms of skillset and production, and if you go back through the history of the league there have always been players comparable to him. Yao Ming, on the other hand, is a combination of size and skill that has NEVER been seen before. Yao Ming has no peers. I actually think LeBron James is in much rarer company than Dwyane Wade historically. I know it's hard to put Yao Ming before Wade and LeBron, but he might be more valuable right now. Certainly if he duplicates the second half of the season over the course of this next season he'll be on the top of all of these lists.

Agreed, Yao has no peers, Shaq included.

[blazer_ben]

LBJ (noone in there right mind would trade him)
Kobe
Yao
Duncan
Wade

[A_3PO]

Originally Posted by krosfyah A dominant big man takes longer to develop but once in their prime, nobody can stop them. Chamberlin, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq. At their prime were all the tops of the game. A dominant big man beats a dominant guard 9x outta 10. Even the Jordan Bulls got lucky they never had to face the Rockets in the finals when Dream was at his peak. Also don't forget, Yao's marketing prospects. LaBron is marketable too but I'd take Yao over LeBron here too.

I understand your position, but being a Rockets fan and seeing Yao up close has you biased. LeBron isn't just a guard, he can play 4 positions, create his own shot and create for others. The concept of a dominant center being more valuable has some validity, but we are comparing more than just position here. LeBron is so awesomely talented and so young I would take him head and shoulders above any NBA player. Kobe would be my #2 if he weren't such a jerk on the floor.

If you took a poll of NBA GM's and another of NBA players, LeBron would beat Yao by a mile in both, IMO.

[wrestler4life]

Originally Posted by krosfyah A dominant big man takes longer to develop but once in their prime, nobody can stop them. Chamberlin, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq. At their prime were all the tops of the game. A dominant big man beats a dominant guard 9x outta 10. Even the Jordan Bulls got lucky they never had to face the Rockets in the finals when Dream was at his peak.

It always used to upset me (still does) that so many don't buy the Rockets Championships because Jordan was not playing!

[dfwrox]

Originally Posted by cenbo416 Yao is in "Completely and Utterly Untouchable" group, actually.

This is purely basketball side. If you take into consideration of the bussiness side... Is there any word beyond untouchable?

[Chronz]

LeBron should be number 1 with Wade at 2 and Duncan at 3. I agree with Yao at 4.

LeBron is arguably the best player in the nba at age 21.

Wade won a ring, hes humble, hes a team player, hes damn good too.

Duncan is still in his prime and in my oppinion IS the best player in the world due to the fact that he will be in his prime for a couple of more years.

Yao is.. well everyone here allready knows about Yao but if he wants to move up on the list hes goin to have to win more.

[Chronz]

Originally Posted by wrestler4life It always used to upset me (still does) that so many don't buy the Rockets Championships because Jordan was not playing!

I wish MJ never left, Id like to kill those bastards that murdered his dad. But if he never wouldve left we wouldve gotten crushed in the 1st finals, but the 2nd finals it wouldve been a dogfight.