Is Webber Necessary Now?

heypartner · 06-28-2001, 04:04 AM

We have Griffin. We have 3 shooters/drivers/passers in SF/CM/Mo'

I'm off the Webber bandwagon. I love the guy; he's great! thacabbage made the best sarcastic case for him. months ago..but...

...things change.

We have the Dream windfall. We have Moochie to sign, Mo'...forget Shandon Jefferson (we traded him)...we have langhi and morris for back-up shooting....we have 4 threat starting line-up with Mo'.

Rudy said he wants to attack the zone...let's run the horses...gittyup.

We need an eraser....we have the Dream (and Walt) windfall...and we could actually keep Dream now..so when should we spend the windfall!

Question now in the NEW Rockets line-up

When do you spend the Dream windfall. $12M on Webber now...or a little now a little next summer.

Don't you just love this new driver's seat speculation WITH EDDIE GRIFFIN!!!!!

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 28, 2001).]

heypartner · 06-28-2001, 04:11 AM

oopps double post on a crazy server night!!

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 28, 2001).]

ZRB · 06-28-2001, 04:25 AM

I am absolutely off the Webber bandwagon. There would not be enough ball to go around with a Webber on the team.

The Rockets should sign Mo, Hakeem, Shandon, and Mooch (somehow).

Francis-Mooch
Mobley-Shandon
Griffin-Morris-Walt
Taylor-Kenny-Bullard
Dream-whoever

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"I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

[This message has been edited by ZRB (edited June 28, 2001).]

Raven Lunatic · 06-28-2001, 04:30 AM

I as well do not think the Rockets should pursue Webber. I like the fact that the team can solve its rebounding problems through Dream (when healthy), and Griffin. Mo Taylor loves playing here in Houston and for Rudy, and Webber is just looking for his big payday. I think Taylor's game better suits our team anyway, and who can say no to having Dream retire a Rocket?

My sig pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

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I would rather have Mo Taylor and his love of the Rockets than Webber and his love of our money.

Bingo · 06-28-2001, 04:31 AM

Wouldn't it be wise to Sign Hakeem one year deal and save our cap room for next summer? Isn't Vinsanity an FA next year (I may be wrong) but if things don't work out as they should we could benefit being in the running for him considering we've already got a proven future allstar Franchise player.

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Behad · 06-28-2001, 04:33 AM

We just drafted our SF of the future. Why would we want Vince?

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It looks like a veteran can Be had.

heypartner · 06-28-2001, 04:34 AM

ZRB...But, we traded Shandon Jefferson.

and Francis backs-up Mobley now anyhow, while Moochie backs-up Francis.

even whitty-bitty sega genesis minds can learn to move stevie to SG once in awhile to spell the team's new leading scorer Mobley...now that he has a real SF to keep the Sprewell's off his ass...good bye defensive height advantage on MOBLEY!!!! Mr Prime-Time is Ready!!

ummmm....Shandon Jefferson is bye-bye

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 28, 2001).]

ZRB · 06-28-2001, 04:46 AM

Lay of the crack HP.

I still think Shandon could be a fine backup. Bringing in some defense off the bench would be a welcome addition to the team. That way, the Rockets could have a full second unit:

Moochie
Shandon
Morris
Kenny
Cato

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Protrolls.com!

want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

ZRB · 06-28-2001, 04:47 AM

What the hell is wrong with my sig?

The "I" won't show up in "I want to be like Olajon."!

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Protrolls.com!

want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

[This message has been edited by ZRB (edited June 28, 2001).]

ROCKETBOOSTER · 06-28-2001, 04:59 AM

RunninRavin, stop playa hatin' on my sig!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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A desirous Mo Taylor is better than a prude Chris Webber.

[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited June 28, 2001).]

Sniper · 06-28-2001, 07:54 AM

Shandon is a fine defensive player, but where are you going to put him? We're overloaded at 1,2,3, and 4 spots now...

1. Francis/Moochie/Colson
2. Cuttino / some Francis minutes
3. Eddie/TRock/Damn Lanky
4. Mo-T / Eddie / Kenny / Bull?
5. Cato / Collier

I guess I can't say that we're overloaded at the two, but I don't believe that Shandon is suitable for playing a backup role at 2 and part-time role at 3 for the amount of money that he and his agent want. I haven't even put the Wiz in here - I think he might be trade bait to help us shore up the 5. However, the the Wiz is a much better deal at his salary to leave a veteran 3 on the team than Shandon would be.

Let's save our cap space for signing Mo-T (I bet he wants to play for us even more now) and a defensive Center. I'd even give Hakeem Cato money as long as he is willing to go with a Walton/Russell mindset instead of a Ewing one. 10 million would be overpaying, but if we have the capspace for 7.5 I'd love to have him, and I don't think that that number is insulting at all.

Back to Shandon, I don't think that you can pay $5 mill for 20 minutes / game max - if he was willing to take something similar to a $2.5 exception, sure, but I guarantee that that won't be happening.

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DO YOU BELIEVE IN MAGIC...? I DO!!!

4chuckie · 06-28-2001, 08:05 AM

I don't think Webber is necessary but I'm anxious to see how pi$$ed he is that his buddy J-W got traded. Maybe he won't do a sign and trade now and if he wants to sign outright, well there is only 1 choice!

However I like to play it safe. Sign Mo-T, Dream & Moochie. I think Anderson is gone, no minutes left.
C-Dream, Cato, Collier
PF-Mo-T, KT, Bull
SF-Griffin, Morris, Walt
SG-Mobley
PG-Stevie, Moochie
IR-Langhi, Colson
Now I don't expect Langhi to rot on the IR, so I would love to trade Walt and Cato, but we have to find someone foolish enough, I mean with enough cap room to take them.
I also think we have a need at SG to backup Mobley. I know Stevie can play there but it worries me to only have 3 guards on our current lineup (I don't have enough faith in Colson yet).
I would expect a couple minor trades to provide us a backup SG and hopefully to trade Cato & Walt.

Joe Joe · 06-28-2001, 08:20 AM

Still on the Webber bandwagon, but its not that big a deal now.

Griffen would fit very well with Mo.

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Dogbelly · 06-28-2001, 08:26 AM

Webber is in the past. With Griffin on board Mo is the PF we need. This will be a better team for a longer time with Griffin. The biggest concern I have at this point i what to do with Cato. If we trade him, we need to get a center in return. Why would a team trade away a good center to us in exchange for an injury-prone underacheiver?

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"If you don't understand it,
don't try to understand it."
-Carl Everett

AroundTheWorld · 06-28-2001, 08:42 AM

If I could sign Webber, I would still do it and be it just to trade him later. The guy is one of the superstars in the NBA. We would be crazy not to at least try to still get him. However, the sense of urgency is not there as much anymore now that Griffin and Morris are on board.

rimbaud · 06-28-2001, 08:55 AM

No, we do not need to go after Webber.

Besides, he would probably complain because he couldn't get enough touches. We now have three offensive weapons.

Also, Shandon would be a problem if we signed him. Before, he wanted all these guarantees that he would start...now, he would be lucky to get 18 minutes in a year or so (I am thinking that Morris would move ahead of him as a 3). So, yeah...bye bye.

We got two good defenders...who also have some offense (or in Griffin's case- oodles and oodles of O).

Re-sign MoT
Re-sign Mooch
Trade Walt
Trade Cato
Somehow get a defensive big man.

That is all I need to feel confident about the playoffs.

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Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony.

Relativist · 06-28-2001, 09:17 AM

I missed the draft, heard that the Rockets drafted Jefferson and starting yelling profanities in a restaurant amongst friends (they're still my friends). With the Clutchcity assessment that RJ doesn't have a great shot, I was adamant against acquiring him as of a month ago because I strongly felt we needed a 3 good at hitting the '3'. And then I heard about the Griffin trade, and everything's blank from there.

I'm off the Webber wagon as well. Mo T is cheaper, younger, and already fits with the team chemistry-wise, but bottom-line, we don't NEED what Webber would bring anymore. With Griffin, it seems we get the ultimate tweener that Rudy T has been searching for in the likes of Croshere, etc.

So now that we have Griffin, can anyone say definitively what our cap space is looking at? I want Mo (for 6-8 million), but I'd like a crack at keeping Dream if he's willing to stay. We still need him at the short-term.

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AroundTheWorld · 06-28-2001, 09:19 AM

In the first two years, I actually would not expect too much scoring from Griffin. If he can deliver 14.5pts/8 rebs/2asts/1steal/2.5 blocks, shooting .440 fg % and .750 ft % his first year, compare that to Shandon's numbers...thank you very much. I think that is what I would realistically expect and it would be great. Of course, later I actually expect him to deliver numbers like McGrady now at some point.

However, for now it would also mean that there would still be many shots for Francis, Mobley and either Webber or Taylor. If Hakeem resigns, something like 10 pts/7 rebs/1 steal/1.5 block would be sufficient and realistic.

Having Griffin and Morris, I definitely do NOT see Shandon coming back.

If you have a lot of capspace, I think you should always try to get the very best player available if that guy is someone you would always prefer in a 2-1 or 3-1 deal. Taylor + Shandon Anderson or Webber?? What side would win that deal? No contest. Plus, even if you realize later you have too many people who permanently need the ball, you should still be able to do something about it by trading for better talent than you would sign right now if you sign two or three lesser players. I still think that

PG Francis
SG Mobley
SF Griffin
PF Webber
C Olajuwon

with Moochie, Kenny, Morris, Bull, Collier on the bench would be a team that would be extremely hard to beat - it would be fantastic offensively and defensively.

And we might be able to afford it right now.

JAG · 06-28-2001, 09:21 AM

Ok, while I agree that Mo and Griffin compliment each other well, and that the need for Webber is lessened, I'd like to point out something about a point in that direction that everyone seems to be making that makes little sense to me...

Everyone's making a variation of the statement ' we don't need Webber cause there's not enough touches and we've got all the scorers we need.'

Well, if that's true, that we're not looking for scoring out of our 4, what exactly is the argument for Mo-T? If our 4's not a scorer, we want a guy who rebounds, plays defense and passes well, and doesn't need to score to contribute...does that sound like Taylor to anyone? If so, please explain it to me...That's what Taylor does: score. Webber is way better at every other element, be it rebounding, passing, whatever...I'm not against going with Taylor, but the 'don't need a scorer at 4 now' argument just doesn't hold water for Taylor...

Also, getting Webber (or, to a lesser degree, signing Taylor) AS a scorer benifits Griffin, I think...Do we really want to put the bulk of the inside scoring on a 19 year old's shoulders? Having Webber or Taylor around to let him develop sounds fine to me, and then , when if he develops to the point where we need him to get more touches, we have a tradable comdity, something which we've been lacking lately. I'd rather be in a position of having to trade something of value than putting the inside load on a kid, at least for now.

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AroundTheWorld · 06-28-2001, 09:24 AM

Another reason that we should sign Webber is that we now need someone strong enough to protect Steve from getting beaten up if Griffin gets angry.