utah and houston bedmates? who'd sleep with utah?

[rimbaud]

Verse,

Utah isn't giving up Stevenson.

Utah wants quality, not quantity Van Horn would be preferable to KT, Cato, Anderson (that is why they are trading 2 role players for a
"star" now.

Russel is better than Anderson.

Marshall is better than KT.

Stevenson is better than Cato.

Rockets actually get thinner in the frontcourt with your trade.

------------------
I have just realized that the stakes are myself
I have no other
ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life
my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over
the roulette table, I recoup what I can
nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu
nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag
this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with
this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move
as we slither over this go board, stepping always
(we hope) between the lines

[Rocket River]

I think the biggest thing is not replacing
the Nets/Utah deal but being a part of it

esp If what is being said in the other thread
is true about moving to get the nets #7 pick.

Then
Maybe we can get the #7 and Marshall

Nets gets Russell, #13 #23, and Utah's pick

Utah gets Van Horn and Cato [and out condolences]

Rocket River

------------------

[rimbaud]

River,

Nets get screwed royally in that deal.

------------------
I have just realized that the stakes are myself
I have no other
ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life
my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over
the roulette table, I recoup what I can
nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu
nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag
this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with
this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move
as we slither over this go board, stepping always
(we hope) between the lines

[Rocket River]

Originally posted by rimbaud: River, Nets get screwed royally in that deal.

hehehehehe
I'm not a Nets Fan :-)
Maybe we can throw them walt to sweeten it.

Rocket River



------------------

[haven]

Donyell Marshall and Bryon Russell are far better than the equivalent guys you can get at #13 and #18. Yes, there's always a chance you'll get lucky... but both of those guys are ABOVE average NBA players. At either one of those picks, it's dicey whether you'll even get someone who'll be in the league in 5 years. Marshall, I'd say, is in the top 3rd of SF's in the league. What an improvement over this year (when we could chose between 3pt shooting or defensive prowes... screw both).

------------------
Lacking inspiration at the moment...

[RocksMillenium]

I think the gist of the Jazz deal was to replace Marshall with another "potential" superstar in Keith Van Horn, not to gut their team. I think if they can't get Van Horn, they're going to keep Marshall. They definitely won't trade them to a chief rival and fellow Midwest division team.

------------------
"I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley

[oeilpere]

Originally posted by RocksMillenium: I think the gist of the Jazz deal was to replace Marshall with another "potential" superstar in Keith Van Horn, not to gut their team. I think if they can't get Van Horn, they're going to keep Marshall. They definitely won't trade them to a chief rival and fellow Midwest division team.

Agreed it is very,very unlikely they would send a player that would help ("fit better") a mid-west rival. They want KVH but would surely like to keep D. Marshall. I do think that D. Stephenson is gone from the salty river and B. Russell may be a luxury Utah can no longer afford on their roster.

If they were serious about Shandon Anderson, (and that is topsy-turvy at best) they would sign him for no more than $4M and it would be very,very unlikely they would accept him in a sign and trade. So that would not benefit us at all. If Shandon were included as a sign and trade, he would have to be going to New Jersey in the three way.

An added thought: cato would fit well with Utah and they would NOT be straining their budget ($6M) for a center spot either.



------------------

[haven]

Oilepere:

I thought that the Jazz were approaching the luxury tax? Larry Miller was quoted on ESPN as wanting to avoid the luxury tax at all costs... even if it meant losing Stockton.

------------------
Lacking inspiration at the moment...

[GATER]

The Spazz have 7 players under contract for 2001-2002: Q.Lewis, Malone, D. Marshall, Ostertag, Padgett, Russell & Stevenson. Crotty, Manning, Polynice & Starks have POpt's.

With all 4 POpt's, the Spazz are about $3.3m over the projected cap. Stockon made $11m last season and a similiar contract (w/ the POpt's) puts them at the threshhold of the Luxury Tax.

KVH is a Full BYC player. His trade value is 1/2 his $9.0M 2001 salary. Since the Spazz and the Nets are over the cap, getting KVH to Utah would probably take a 3rd team. I just don't see the Spazz wanting to deal with (help) the Rocks!

------------------
Raef to Rocks in '01-'02!


[This message has been edited by GATER (edited June 13, 2001).]

[carlit0]

06/13-JAZZ HAVE TAX PROBLEMS- Not IRS tax problems, but Luxury Tax problems, making it clear to everyone, Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller said he has no intension of exceeding the Tax threshold which many are projecting at $57 million. Any team which exceeds that amount, will have to pay a penalty to the league in the amount of the excess. The Jazz say they do what to return John Stockton, but will not pay the luxury tax in doing so. The tax also appears to be something killing any option of a Keith Van Horn trade, in fact the 2 players (Donyell Marshall and Bryon Russell) mentioned as possibles in a deal for Van Horn have been notified by the team that they would like to open extension talks in July. Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor has been playing damage control , after he was quoted saying he and the team were talking with New Jersey about Van Horn. Since the quote, almost daily he is quoted denying or declining interest in Van Horn, with today's notable quote being "At this time, there are no active discussions going on with the Nets." The Jazz are currently projected at just under $45 million in cap obligations.
www.bskball.com/Rumors.htm



------------------
"Instinctly u recognize things,now take advantage of what u just recognized!".. Hakeem..

[thacabbage]

NO, NO, NO

To those of you who can remember far back enough, Donyell Marshall is one of my all-time most hated players. (ah, where's Sir Scarvajal when you need him?)

Marshall is slow and awkward. Jerry Sloan has an impressive track record of turning garbage into gold. He's gotten the most out of players such as David Benoit, Greg Foster, Felton Spencer, John Crotty, Antoine Carr, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, and Donyell Marshall. All players who have struggled elsewhere.

Playing next to Karl Malone makes Marshall look good. Stay away from this slacker and his $6million price tag.



------------------
how could you not want c-webb?

[bigboymumu]

Cabbage is right. Also why would we want Deshawn when we have Cat? It does not make sense. Russel would not be in any other line up other than Utah. I would rather have the picks.

------------------
Fuggetabout it

[verse]

Ok, let’s change gears here guys.

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that we don’t/can’t get Webber. Not many of us, nor the Rocket’s organization, are happy with Mo Tay as our primary POWER forward next year (though I don’t mind him as a 3-4 swingman). So where do we look from here?

Try this link:

http://chicagosports.com/bulls/conte...153900,00.html

or just read this blurb:

Jazz shakeup may include bringing Van Horn home:

Larry Miller said the Utah Jazz's first-round elimination was the worst he'd seen in 16 years as owner. "Would you rather come to the Delta Center to see the Jazz win or to see entertaining NBA basketball?" he said. Miller is said to be pushing for the team to get rid of center Greg Ostertag. Miller is unhappy with free-agent point guard Jacque Vaughn.

Karl Malone is under contract and John Stockton is expected to return, but the Jazz has been interested in Keith Van Horn, the Utah grad whom the Nets have been shopping.

The Jazz supposedly would like to deal Donyell Marshall and Bryon Russell, who both slumped late in the season, and develop 20-year-old DeShawn Stevenson and incoming rookie Russian Andrei Kirilenko, who was a 1999 draft pick and whom the Jazz is likening to Sacramento's Peja Stojakovic.

Well now, I don’t know about you guys, but I’d love to have Donyell Marshall on our team. Add Bryon Russell in the deal &/or DeShawn Stevenson (whom Jerry Sloan has Never been enamored with) and I’m real, real, real happy. And guess what else? We may have the players to pull it off. Here’s the salary breakdown:

Donyell Marshall contract $5,880,000 $6,510,000 $7,140,000 $0 $0 $0 $0

DeShawn Stevenson contract $828,120 $890,229 $956,996 $1,624,022 $2,362,953 $0 $0

Bryon Russell contract $5,142,856 $5,142,856

Utah’s already expressed interest (God knows why?) in the return of Shandn Andersn (sign & trade?)

Utah, even if they do plan on bringing in Kirilenko, will be in need of a backup Pf. I’d give them Kenny Thomas in a heartbeat.

Kenny Thomas contract $885,120 $946,920 $1,557,683 $2,225,526 $0 $0 $0

Other news coming out of Utah – yesterday – is that OldMan Crappyknees (yes, the guy that does the Cabbage Patch still) is leaving Utah. He will NOT be back next season. With this news, would they be willing to take a flyer on the infamous Kelvin Cato? He’d be an improvement (yikes!) over Osterfat – whom they are trying to unload. Even if they couldn’t unload the tub of goo, they could roll with the old two-headed monster at center.

Kelvin Cato contract $5,400,000 $6,000,000 $6,600,000 $7,200,000 $7,800,000 $8,400,000 $0

BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS! BONUS!

(and I don’t mean Arvydas)


By not going getting Webber, we still have enough money to sign Hakeem as center.


Does it work?

That depends. Houston would probably have to throw in the #23 and 18 in this draft. That or the #13 and #18. That’s fine by me, either way. With one draft pick, we can look at getting a center (Johnson, Hunter, etc.) who can play D and rebound.

If Houston could sign and trade Shandn for roughly 5-6 million per, the trade (salary-wise) would work. What would this leave Houston with?

PG: Steve Francis, Mooch
SG: Cuttino, Deshawn Stevenson
SF: Donyell Marshall, Russell, Langhi, Bull
PF: Mo Taylor,
C: Hakeem The Dream, Collier

+ Drafted Player


Houston Trades:

Shandn Andersn
Kenny Thomas
Kelvin Cato
#13 & #18

Utah Trades:

Deshawn Stevenson
Bryon Russell
Donyell Marshall

Who Here Would Do This Trade?


[This message has been edited by verse (edited June 13, 2001).]

[franchise_3]

if we could keep the #13 that would be better
or do the #13 and #23??

------------------
***FRANCHISE***

[Ren Cooper]

I agree with Franchise_3 unless we could keep KT or pick up another good backup Power Forward!

Or maybe Utah can throw in a pick.

------------------
Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy

[Gascon]

I'd rather not trade 13, only because I think we could get away with it, but I'd make that trade in a hearbeat.

------------------
Gascon

[verse]

of course we'd rather have the #13! but you have to look at it from utah's side as well!

they're giving up 1 good, solid player and 1 young "potential-laden" star. they'd be getting back a project, a defensive sf, and a decent power forward. they are trying to rebuild on the fly, so, they'll need picks. and they'll want the 2 high ones.

besides, why do you care? we wouldn't NEED the high pick, since we'd have a small forward in donyell. what we'd need is a 4/5 player. and we could get that with the lower pick.

[RichRocket]

I'm averse to it.

I think the players we could get at 13 and 18 match the near-term value (and exceed the long-term value) of Marshall and Russell. Most are of the notion that we don't need to spend a high pick on a backup 2 guard (Stevenson).

Moving Cato would be nice, though, if we can't motivate him!



------------------
Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils.

[gr8-1]

wait, the article said Utah wanted to keep Stevenson though.

------------------
"norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."

[verse]

gr8-1:

yes, that's the owner talking. sloan, however, is not a big fan of stevenson at all.

1) he basically called him young and dumb in the preseason.
2) he gave him NO PT in the regular season
3) he earned PLENTY of bench minutes in the playoffs against an athletic dallas team.
4) OWNERSHIP wants to move deshawn to point guard.
5) sloan says HELL NO!
6) OWNERSHIP wanted deshawn in the draft, sloan didn't.


something will give, eventually. my guess is that deshawn COULD BE dealt, if you can get some picks (#13 & #18) in return in this sf and sg deep draft.