Who will you think will win the Nba Finals between Jordan's Bulls of the championship years or Hakeem's Rockets of the Championship years?This is a toss up for me and I can't pick a winner.Who do ya think will take that DREAM matchup?!?!?!Feel me in on this!Out..Peace ------------------ -JDuBb...One
The team that was the first to win 4 games. DaDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
If the Rockets had been the opponents all six times, they would have won four series with the Bulls. Add those to the two titles in 94-95, and the Rockets would be the ones with six titles. The only reason the Rockets never played the Bulls was the matchup problems in the west. Damn Sonics, Jazz! ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Don't visit my site.
I blame the Sonics for this debate. If they were out of the picture, we'd have our answers. And I like our chances in a match-up with the Bulls, especially considering we had a pretty good regular season record vs. the Bulls in those years. But, you never really know. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
If Hakeem was slaughtering guys like Ewing and David Robinson those years in the playoff, one shudders to think how gruesome the damage would be against the likes of Perdue/Cartwright, etc. -There's a reason the Rockets were 5-1 in the regular season against the Bulls from 91-93, their first 3-peat. Maxwell did a much better job on Jordan than the Bulls 3 headed CBA monster did against Hakeem at Center. The way horry was playing for us back then, he'd have cancelled out pippen too. -I was never as worried about the Bulls as I was Seattle, a team that matched up so well with us and basically had our number till we got Barkley. -History shows the Bulls didn't match up well against teams with elite Centers. The team that gave them trouble in the East was NY with Ewing. The reason they lost in 95 is not because Jordan was "out of shape." His playoff numbers in 95 were right in line with his career averages. The reason the Bulls lost is that the 3 headed CBA monster had no answer for Shaq inside. Bulls were fortunate to not face Hakeem IMO. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Hakeem wasn't enough to get past the Sonics for a while there, so that Sonics team was the greatest team ever! BTW, what hall-of-famer played center for the Sonics back then? Oh, ok, I'll stop. ------------------ NBA Draft Lottery is May 20th. Start praying now. [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited May 11, 2001).]
"Hakeem wasn't enough to get past the Sonics for a while there, so that Sonics team was the greatest team ever! BTW, what hall-of-famer played center for the Sonics back then?" -It was not Hakeem being stopped one on one by any of the Sonics Centers. It was the defensive scheme they employed, triple teaming him IMMEDIATELY with long-armed athletic defenders like McKey, Kemp, Paytom, Nate McMillan, etc. That Seattle team played the passing lanes better than any team that I've ever seen. McMillan and Payton were just demons. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Uh.....Bulls would beat the Rockets, both years. You know I am a huge Rockets fan, but I am not stupid either (NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE). Jordan's Bulls would have found a way to get it done. The Bulls were 5-1 vs the Rockets in Jordan's second stint. Pippen during his good years would have whipped Robert Horry. Plus Karl Malone was a big forward that the Bulls had to contend with. But I don't think it is fair to put an asterisk next to The Rockets' two championships just becuase Jordan retired. What was the NBA supposed to do, SHUT DOWN, just because Jordan left. Last time I checked Jordan was not bigger than the game. The positive thing is this, no matter what my opinion is, A Rockets-Bulls Finals will always be debated. Olajuwon never beat the Bulls, Jordan never beat the Rockets,The same which Can't be said for Utah, way to go Utah. OUT, JBIIROCKETS ------------------ You can put it on the BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSS! Chicago White Sox Announcer Ken Harrelson
"Jordan's Bulls would have found a way to get it done. The Bulls were 5-1 vs the Rockets in Jordan's second stint" -And the Rockets were 5-1 vs. the Bulls in Jordan's first stint. Maxwell always shut Jordan down, the Stats prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. -It's really amazing that people don't realize how much of a sick mismatch Hakeem vs. Scott Williams/Cartwright/Perdue would have been. Just look at what Dream did to stars like David Robinson and Pat Ewing. -The Rockets of 93-95 would have beaten the Bulls, after the Rockets got Barkley they were never the same team, thus the 1-5 record vs. the Bulls. Those Barkley Rockets would have been smoked by Chicago. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
"Pippen during his good years would have whipped Robert Horry. " -You talking about the same Pippen that couldn't even school Jeff Hornacek the 2 years the Bulls beat the Jazz?...Wow, amazing. You must have forgotten how awesome Horry was with Houston when he was shutting down Barkley, Rodman, and Horace Grant in the Rockets finals runs. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Max played him well, but did he really shut him down? I don't recall that. Got any stats? Just because you average-to-role players at any given position doesn't make you a weaker team. If that were the case the Rockets would have 0 championships. The likes of Williams, Cartwright, and Perdue were enough for the Bulls to win several championships. The Sonics never really had a stud in the paint to contain Hakeem, either, yet they frustrated him more than any team in the league simply because they played great team defense. It's the team, not any individual position that necessarily matters, which is why you can't say Hakeem would've torched the Bulls center, we would have won. If that were the case everybody would've torched our asses because we had Kenny Smith in the backcourt defending them. If you remember the cries of those championship years, it was always... "Kenny can't guard anybody!"... hey, come to think of it, that's a problem with our current backcourt... championship here we come! ------------------ NBA Draft Lottery is May 20th. Start praying now.
Hey Cato=Bum, "-You talking about the same Pippen that couldn't even school Jeff Hornacek the 2 years the Bulls beat the Jazz?...Wow, amazing. You must have forgotten how awesome Horry was with Houston when he was shutting down Barkley, Rodman, and Horace Grant in the Rockets finals runs." What is amazing is that you failed to realize that Pippen was playing Stockton a lot of the time and Harper was playing Hornacek. Way to overlook that critical factor. What is amazing is that you fail to remember how solid a player Scottie was before that. Lets see, he had his best season (not production-wise) in 1995-96, in which he was an MVP candidate, when he averaged 19.4 and over 6 boards. He was also All-NBA first team that year. And he had an even better production season in 96-97. I am not a Pip fan by any means, but I realize unlike you, apparently, that Scottie had some GAME, ok! "Maxwell always shut Jordan down, the Stats prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt." C"MON, Nice Take Cato=BUM, no one ever "shut MJ down". And I am sure MJ would have gotten up for MAX if the Rockets met the Bulls in the Finals. Find Max vs MJ stats to back up your take At least your user-name make sense. ------------------ You can put it on the BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSS! Chicago White Sox Announcer Ken Harrelson
Hey, Cato=Bum I left something out, "-History shows the Bulls didn't match up well against teams with elite Centers. The team that gave them trouble in the East was NY with Ewing. The reason they lost in 95 is not because Jordan was "out of shape." His playoff numbers in 95 were right in line with his career averages. The reason the Bulls lost is that the 3 headed CBA monster had no answer for Shaq inside." Dude, you are WAY OFF. Last time I checked, Ewing's knicks NEVER beat Jordan's BULLS in the playoffs....and If I remember correctly, WHICH I DO, the Bulls' 3 HEADED CBA MONSTER swept SHAQ in the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals. So apparantly playing against the elite centers was not as big a problem for the Bulls as you might think. RACK ME! JBIIROCKETS ------------------ You can put it on the BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSS! Chicago White Sox Announcer Ken Harrelson
"Max played him well, but did he really shut him down? I don't recall that. Got any stats?" -All I could find on the old box scores was the Rockets Bulls games in 1992 and 1993. In those games, here's the head to head matchup in the 4 meetings those 2 years: FG % PPG W Maxwell 51 17 3 MJ 43 27 1 -So I shouldn't have said he "shut him down" but clearly MJ was not his typical self. MJ's career averages were 32 ppg and 51 % FG, both went down quite a bit against mad max. Max helped to contain him. -I'll try to find some older stats, but I know the Rockets swept the Bulls in 1991 and I remember Mad Max ALWAYS playing MJ very well and holding him in the low 40's FG % wise. "that were the case everybody would've torched our asses because we had Kenny Smith in the backcourt defending them. If you remember the cries of those championship years, it was always... "Kenny can't guard anybody!". -And teams INDEED exploited Smith's defensive liabilities. Remember Derek Harper torching him in the Finals?...KJ going off for 40 a game in the Rockets Suns series?...Gary Payton humiliating him? Teams did torch Smith night in and night out, just like they torched the Bulls Centers. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
"Dude, you are WAY OFF. Last time I checked, Ewing's knicks NEVER beat Jordan's BULLS in the playoffs" -And where the hec did I they did? Learn how to freakin read. I said NO ONE PLAYED THE BULLS TOUGHER IN THE EAST THAN EWING's KNICKS. They consistently took them to 6 and 7 game series. Hec, if Charles Smith didn't flat out CHOKE 4 layup attempts in the last 10 seconds of Game 7 in 93, the Bulls lose to those Knicks. "and If I remember correctly, WHICH I DO, the Bulls' 3 HEADED CBA MONSTER swept SHAQ in the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals. " -LOL. And that same Bulls team lost 4-2 to Shaq in 95. You want to know what the difference was?...They went out and traded for Dennis Rodman in the 95 offseason. Once the Bulls traded for Rodman, I'll grant you, the Rockets would not have beaten them. Of course, losing Horace Grant in Game 1 of the Conference Finals in 96 didn't help the Magic' cause. But before the Bulls got Rodman, what some forget is that the Bulls in 95 had NO INSIDE presence. They lost Horace Grant before 95 and didn't have Rodman yet. That's why that team had no prayer of containing Shaquille. -To say that the Bulls 95 team which had no Rodman or Ho Grant would have beaten the red hot Rockets is really asinine. They couldn't even beat the Magic team which the Rockets SWEPT in the 95 Finals. And spare me the "Jordan wasn't 100 %" line of crap. I guarantee you Jordan's playoff stats in 95 are BETTER than he had in 96 and 97 playoffs. The difference: Rodman. "What is amazing is that you failed to realize that Pippen was playing Stockton a lot of the time and Harper was playing Hornacek. Way to overlook that critical factor." -And what the HELL does that have to do with Pippen's inability to post up 6'3" Jeff Hornacek? "What is amazing is that you fail to remember how solid a player Scottie was before that. Lets see, he had his best season (not production-wise) in 1995-96, in which he was an MVP candidate, when he averaged 19.4 and over 6 boards. He was also All-NBA first team that year. And he had an even better production season in 96-97." -You can't seriously expect me to believe you are a Rockets fan if you are on a Rockets site posting the freakin resume of one Scottie QUITTEN, the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
I think there are always teams out there that can beat the NBA Champions. Some teams don't get to the Finals to prove it. To say that Houston could beat Chicago is what I want to say but won't b/c we'll never know. Understand that had Seattle not lost 2 years in a row to lower seeds Houston(Seattle had Houston's # for a long stretch)may not have been champions but thats just a opinion. Like I've posted before if Dream was to goes anywhere else I would love to see him play with MJ the only other guy to dominate in the 90's. I mean all of the 90's(I must include Karl Malone as well). I would love that Dream and MJ on the same team. That would be scary, both even if their not in their primes anymore can still make it deep into the playoffs in the East. Sorry getting off the subject...... ------------------
Cato=Bum, "To say that the Bulls 95 team which had no Rodman or Ho Grant would have beaten the red hot Rockets is really asinine. They couldn't even beat the Magic team which the Rockets SWEPT in the 95 Finals." Dude, I never said that their 95 team would beat the Rockets in the Finals. i said their championship teams would. This thread is about if the Dream Led Rockets would have beaten the Jordan led title teams. Don't bring up the 95 Bulls, they didn't do anything. "-And where the hec did I they did? Learn how to freakin read. I said NO ONE PLAYED THE BULLS TOUGHER IN THE EAST THAN EWING's KNICKS. They consistently took them to 6 and 7 game series. Hec, if Charles Smith didn't flat out CHOKE 4 layup attempts in the last 10 seconds of Game 7 in 93, the Bulls lose to those Knicks." Almost is not enough, dude. Apparently the Knicks did not play them tuff enuff becuase 4 of MJ's six rings involved ending the Knicks' season. (And these so called tough performances from the Knicks did not tire the bulls until AFTER THEY WON THE RING) Jordan's series record in playoffs 91-93, 96-98 vs elite centers.....7-0 (Ewing 4, Mourning 2, Shaq 1) Remember 95 Bulls dont count. "Once the Bulls traded for Rodman, I'll grant you, the Rockets would not have beaten them." I guess your saying that the Rockets championship teams would not have beaten the 96-98 Bulls teams. "You can't seriously expect me to believe you are a Rockets fan if you are on a Rockets site posting the freakin resume of one Scottie QUITTEN, the most overrated player in the history of the NBA." I don't care what you believe, believe what you want. Everything about scottie doesn't have to be bad. Sounds like you have not gotten over him. I've bad-mouthed him enough, i'm just treating him like another NBA player now. Crossfire can be fun. JBIIROCKETS ------------------ You can put it on the BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSS! Chicago White Sox Announcer Ken Harrelson
"I don't care what you believe, believe what you want. Everything about scottie doesn't have to be bad. " -Yeah, all he did was basically screw over the entire franchise. No biggie. "Dude, I never said that their 95 team would beat the Rockets in the Finals. i said their championship teams would" -Like hell you didn't. Don't try to back down like a little weasel, at least back your statements up. Earlier in the thread you said "Uh, Bulls would have beaten the Rockets both years in 94 and 95". ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
"Jordan's series record in playoffs 91-93, 96-98 vs elite centers.....7-0 (Ewing 4, Mourning 2, Shaq 1)" -If Ewing could consistently take the Jordan Bulls to 7 games, I'd take my chances with Hakeem, a significantly superior player to Ewing, against Jordan. Jordan's record vs. Rockets from 91-93: 1-5. That's a little more RELEVANT than what he did against Ewing and Mourning with respect to a Rockets Bulls matchup. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Thanks for defending my point that just because you have weaknesses at any given position doesn't mean you're a weaker team. We had a terrible defensive weakness at the PG spot, but we still managed to win championships. Just because the Bulls had a weakness at C doesn't mean the Rockets would have beaten the Bulls. So you can't say "we had Hakeem and would've torched the Bulls because he would've outplayed their centers". Big deal. Hakeem's gone for 30 and 15 and still lost before. This isn't a one man game. If greatness of a team was defined by one position, it'd be Wilt and not Russell with the hardware. It isn't, it's a team game. The Bulls proved that, the Pistons proved that, the Rockets proved that, the Spurs proved that, and now players like Kobe are realizing that. One mismatch does not constitute a dynasty no matter how great the mismatch. ------------------ NBA Draft Lottery is May 20th. Start praying now.
