SamFisher

Come on god, or whoever you are, you designer, just stop it.

Seriously, leading ID proponents tell us that irreducible complexity at the molecular level - and the lack of evidence of the random assemblage thereof = positive evidence that Intelligent Designer Guy is pulling the strings.

Why is he pulling the strings to make avian influenza jump to humans?

Viruses aren't even technically alive - they just little bits of RNA that copy themselves again - but they are defintely irreducibly complex. And they act like they're alive, kind of.

Obviously, this didn't just happen randomly if ID is right - the ID must have designed them that way. if they're not even alive, I don't know why they would want to do reproduce themselves, and why they would want to jump species either. In fact, there is an absence of proof here, and we have a very complex organic system doing very complex things. Accordingly the ID guy must have designed it that way, according to my understanding of ID.

Why is the ID guy trying to kill us all? Stop it ID guy. Please. I like chicken. I like using chicken poop as a sculpting medium. Well, not really, but I might someday.

Advertisement

rhadamanthus

I'll just throw fuel on the fire. Because I'm in a grumpy mood.

* Why is mankind created with a spine that is perfectly designed for walking on all fours when we walk on two? In fact, the spine is designed so horribly badly for bi-pedal movement that any engineering student could do significantly better after the first 6 months in engineering school.
* What kind of idiot would design a sea-living mammal like the whale, with the remnants of legs inside its lower abdomen? What on earth would a whale do with legs in it's abdomen?
* The human pain system is designed in a marvellously stupid way. If I suffer from a small amount of tooth decay, I suffer significant pain, this in spite of the fact that the tooth decay is not at all dangerous to my life. On the other hand, if I get a cancerous growth in my lungs, I notice nothing until it is too late to save my life. What kind of moron would design a warning system like that?
* Several parts of my internal organs, the appendix being a notable one, is designed in such a way that inflammation, and until quite recently - death, follows. This in spite of the fact that the dumb thing serves no purpose whatsoever! Would you praise GM for having a nonsensical device in your car that blows your engine to pieces if it rains for three days in a row?
* The eye is a fantastically complex mechanism, but it has a design flaw, very minor, but the design flaw reduces the accuracy of the eye with as much as 50%. Why on earth would you be dumb enough to do that in humans? The design flaw would be trivial to fix if you designed a human from scratch.
* A bi-pedaled entity like the human would be able to walk faster, suffer less back pain and in general be far healtier if our knees were jointed the opposite way of the way they are. What kind of moron would give us knees that work great if you walk on all four, but not so well when you walk on two?

AntiSonic

I'm no Bible scholar, but aren't all earthly perils part of mankind's curse from being expelled from paradise?

Seems to sum it up pretty conveniently, even if it is unfair to punish successive generations for the sins of one couple. But hey, I'm not an omniscient/omnipotent being. Who the **** am I to question?

rhester

I'll explain this to you without quoting creation scientists if you will expain gender evolution to me without quoting evolutionary scientists.

Explain why those early asexual organisms decided to form genders and explain why only two genders evolved, why not 3,4 or a dozen?

Just tell me what those little asexual cells were thinking way back when. (I've read evolutionary apologetics- give me your opinion)

MadMax

why don't you ask Him all those questions?

halfbreed

I hope for your sake that you're right about there being no intelligent being. In one post you called him/her:

-idiot
-stuipd
-moron
-dumb
-moron (once more for kicks, I suppose)

I really hope for your sake you're right.

Mori

There is an inherit cost in increasing the number of genders. Asexual species reproduce much more quickly and simply than sexual ones. However, sexual species have a much greater genetic variation and can adapt to new environments/hazards much more quickly than asexual species. In a way, sexual species stay a step ahead with their genetic variation. Also, like most evolved traits, it isn't an either/or propisition. Sex evolved gradually. There are many species that can reproduce asexually or 'sexually' through gene exchange despite no sex differentiation.

So to answer your question, there is a large benefit to have two sexes, but the cost becomes too great to have more.

As far what asexual cells think, I doubt they think much at all.

Mori

I got the following message:

"The supreme being you are trying to reach has been disconnected or never existed in the first place."

adeelsiddiqui

actually thats his fancy new voicemail message so that he dont get bugged by random buggers with stupid questions

MadMax

That's funny..I seem to be able to get through to Him just fine. (of course, that makes me a lunatic)

rhadamanthus

:D

Point taken. I am less grumbly now (two cups of coffee).

I think it strange that evolution causes such angst with religious people, that's all.

And I also like Azadre's point. Perhaps all the screwed up pieces of our body and the pain they cause are the "intelligent design". From a christian perspective, perhaps the fall not only brought on all this earthly misery, but also physically altered the human body. Intriguing.

But it's a little unfair to claim intelligent design, and then claim that everything that does not seem intelligent is intentional as punishment. Seems like "having your cake and eating it too".

But then again, I'm sure that perk comes free with whole "omniscient all-powerful being" thing...

I digress...

MadMax

no need to apologize! questions are fine...we all have them.

Sishir Chang

As most of y'all know I'm a big skeptic on ID but from what I understand of ID I don't see Avian influenza as a strike against ID. If one were to accept ID Avian Influenza that spreads to humans could be seen as a built in system to keep human populations in check to keep us from using up all of the Earth's resources.

FranchiseBlade

The problem with ID as a science is that can't be tested. It can be speculated but without verification and testing it is removed from the realm of science.

Sishir Chang

Just wanted to follow up on Mori's response by pointing out that its only in mammals, birds where there are two genders or that the genders are so closely defined. There are many animal species that have 3 genders, male, female, and hermaphrodite while many animal species even relatively higher forms like reptiles can change their gender. Why in mammals and birds we are fixed with two genders has a lot to do with what Mori described but also a lot to do with mutation. For instance the Y chromosome is very similar to the X chromosome and appears to be a stunted or mutant X chromosome so maleness may very well be the result of a mutation that has proven fortuitous for sexual reproduction. This would also explain why men still retain some female traits like nipples even though they serve no functional purpose.

gifford1967

Evolution is the intelligent design.

MR. MEOWGI

If it's so intelligent, I doubt it's so sensitive and insecure and full of revenge. That's unintelligent.

But SamFisher is right. If one thing is a part of all other things, either this "designer" controls all things or it controls nothing. There is no such thing as divine intervention because that's all life and existence would be. There would be no non-divine existence. It's one or the other, the "good" and the "bad".

thegary

i think we should teach dumb design as an alternative to ID

rhester

This debate will go on and on.
To take your post point by point would be futile.

After reading the evolutionists explanations I am convinced they are guessing and not using any science.

Your assertion that 'sex evolved gradually' is the best summary of everything I have read. Great answer to the question 'why'.