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Ranking the game's best centers

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by dream2franchise, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. dream2franchise

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    This is the last one in the bunch, it's quite sad to see how the center position has fallen since the Dream era, which also included Ewing,Shaq,Robinson,Mourning,Mutombo and many others...

    ________________________________________________________________

    Ranking the game's best centers
    Story Tools: Print Email XML
    Mike Kahn / Special to FOXSports.com
    Posted: 3 hours ago



    Too often the complaint has been there are so few pure centers in the NBA anymore.

    Really, how many have there ever been — at least those who were more than just thugs?
    To be sure, that's why so many teams have gone abroad to find 7-footers with large frames to bang inside. It almost reached epidemic proportions a couple of years ago.


    But as we rank the centers of the NBA today, the majority of them still were schooled in the game here and the definition of center continues to expand beyond just locking horns inside.

    Of course, there is nobody to compare to mammoth Shaquille O'Neal, who has been the preeminent pivot man ever since Hakeem Olajuwon retired. Because he is a 7-footer and well over 300 pounds with all the requisite skills, Shaq makes a game almost impossible to officiate. Consequently, defending him is mostly based on the attempt to force the ball out of his hands, unless a team can prevent him from getting the ball at all. His health has been an issue the past four seasons — he's missed an average of nearly 14 games a year ¹ and with his 34th birthday coming in March, that's not likely to change.

    Nonetheless, he is Shaq!

    Although there are a lot of detractors, Yao Ming's game continues to blossom, and with a year alongside Tracy McGrady under his belt, the versatile 7-foot-5 native of China will only get better this season. People forget he just turned 24 this week, so the Houston Rockets will always be contenders with this duo.

    Jumping high into the mix, even though he didn't even want to play center on the Phoenix Suns, is Amare Stoudamire, at the ripe age of 22. His extraordinary playoff performance, in which he averaged 29.9 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.00 blocks, raised the eyebrows of everyone in and around the league.


    Because of his sheer size, Shaquille O'Neal is a force in the post. (D. Lippitt/Einstein/NBAE via / Getty Images)

    And as if Stoudemire isn't enough of an aberration for centers at 6-foot-10, 250 pounds, you have the two-time Eastern Conference champion Detroit Pistons' irrepressible Ben Wallace to contemplate. He's listed at 6-9, 240. Well, he definitely weighs at least 240 with his undying commitment to body-building, but few people believe he's taller than 6-8 and he still manages to body up every center in the league.

    So with all the 7-footers in this league, it speaks volumes that two of the top four really aren't even that close to the magic 7-foot mark, nor are they centers in the truest sense of the position.

    Sure, there are plenty more 7-footers — 7-foot-3 Zydrunas Ilgauskas is a wonderful scorer and has exceptional hands. The twin towers in Chicago, with 7-foot-1 Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry, all 6-foot-11 and close to 300 pounds, there are two legitimate centers.

    Take a peek at young Samuel Dalembert, spindly Marcus Camby and various interiors skills of Jamaal Magloire, and you get varying degrees of defensive impact and board work.

    But when it comes down to ranking the centers, the only serious barometer is to give props to the unstoppable motor of Shaq Diesel as numero uno, then start the arguments comparing everyone else.


    1. Shaquille O'Neal, Miami Heat
    Ht./Wt.: 7-1, 325
    Numbers: 22.9 pts., 10.4 reb., 2.3 blk.
    There is no one like him in all of basketball, even at less than 100 percent. His size, strength, agility and strength are unparalleled today, and only Wilt Chamberlain is comparable in league history.

    2. Yao Ming, Houston Rockets
    Ht./Wt.: 7-5, 295
    Numbers: 18.3 pts., 8.4 reb., 2.0 blk.
    People expect too much from him, but his somewhat placid veneer makes him a finesse player. And how many other 7-5, 295-pounders are there to match up with him? None. So it really does make him a special player and he makes the Rockets always dangerous.

    3. Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix Suns
    Ht./Wt.: 6-10, 250
    Ht./Wt.: 26.0 pts., 8.9 reb., 1.63 blk.
    His extraordinary playoff performance catapulted him into the land of superstardom. Can he stay there? That's what we don't know. He improved so much, and is so quick, what he lacks in bulk and overall strength, he makes up for in quickness and explosiveness.

    What Amare Stoudemire lacks in strength, he makes up for with his quickness and explosiveness. (Andrew D. Bernstein / Getty Images)


    4. Ben Wallace, Detroit Pistons
    Ht./Wt.: 6-9, 240
    Numbers: 9.7 pts., 12.2 reb., 2.38 blk.
    He is just as unique as Shaq or Yao or Amare, if only because he is so undersized and yet takes over games with sheer will and energy and a general focus of grabbing every rebound, attempting to block every shot or steal every pass. Even his shooting improved last season because he worked so hard on it.

    5. Brad Miller, Sacramento Kings
    Ht./Wt.: 7-0, 260
    Numbers: 15.6 pts., 9.3 reb, 1.21 blk. As far as talent goes, he's right there with all of them. Sort of a latter day Bill Laimbeer without the fangs, he can shoot, pass and rebound extremely well. The liability — and it's a big one — is he can't seem to make it through any season without breaking down. It's always late in the year and it's why the Pacers let him go for the big bucks without a fight.

    6. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cleveland Cavaliers
    Ht./Wt.: 7-3, 260
    Numbers: 16.9 pts., 8.6 reb., 2.12 blk.
    Z has amazing hands and touch, making him always dangerous offensively and a good alternative in the offense to LeBron James. But his lack of mobility causes him to be erratic on the boards and defensively in the interior, and that has an adverse effect on the entire defense. Nonetheless, his offensive skills make him an All-Star.

    7. Marcus Camby, Denver Nuggets
    Ht./Wt. 6-11, 230
    Numbers: 10.3 pts., 10.0 reb., 3.02 blk.
    Perhaps the most underrated center in the game, what Camby lacks in strength and touch, he compensates for with energy. Carmelo Anthony is the future star, and others make contributions inside and outside. But Camby is the one who keeps the Nuggets whole with his defense, rebounding and ability to run on the break.

    Marcus Camby's defense and ability to get out and run on the break makes him valuable to the Nuggets. (Brian Bahr / Getty Images)


    8. Jamaal Magloire, New Orleans Hornets
    Ht./Wt.: 6-11, 260
    Numbers: 11.7 pts., 8.9 reb., 1.0 blk.
    He played in only 23 games last season due to a torn ligament in his hand, and then shortly after he returned in April, he missed eight more games with back spasms. It was a mess, as was the team. But he's a tough and improving interior player which is why there are always rumors about him being traded him

    9. Samuel Dalembert, Philadelphia 76ers
    Ht./Wt.: 6-11, 250
    Numbers: 8.2 pts., 7.5 reb., 1.68 blk.
    The 11.6 points, 12.8 rebounds and 1.4 blocks a game he averaged against the Pistons in the five playoff games last season earned him a $64 million contract. Is he worth it or will he always be an unfinished project? It's a rather expensive question, but the good news is he has a great attitude and work ethic, which should translate to him consistently improving.

    10. Tyson Chandler, Chicago Bulls
    Ht./Wt.: 7-1, 240
    Numbers: 8.0 pts., 9.7 reb., 1.76 blk.
    The less-refined talent of the twin towers that included Eddy Curry, Chandler has brought energy and unfailing work habits to be a great impact player off the bench on the defensive end. Because of the way he attacks the game, most expect the offense to come as time goes on. The real concern is what happens to Curry, with his undetermined heart issue, free agency status and weight problem. What we do know is it will only translate into more time for Chandler.
    Others receiver consideration: Eddy Curry, Chicago Bulls; Erick Dampier, Dallas Mavericks; Primoz Brezec, Charlotte Bobcats; Nenad Krstic, New Jersey Nets; Nazr Mohammed, San Antonio Spurs; Lorenzen Wright, Memphis Grizzlies; Chris Kamen, Los Angeles Clippers; Joel Przybilla, Portland Trail Blazers; Chris Mihm, Los Angeles Lakers.

    Veteran NBA writer Mike Kahn is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.
     
  2. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    If not this year, then next year, Yao is going to take the number 1 spot. I agree with Phil Jackson's assesment on Yao. He is not going to make a sudden leap but nice gradual improvement each year. If you compare him to where he was when he entered the league to now, you can see that he has changed a lot but you cannot go back to one specific point of time and say that's where major improvement came from. This year he will have Swift to do most of the dirty work for him, which is only going to make him that much more effective.
     
  3. KeepKenny

    KeepKenny Contributing Member

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    I'm tired of people always pointing out that Yao is a finesse player as if it's a bad thing. Shaq really is the only power player today and in the recent past. People might consider Amare a power player because he dunks so much, but he rarely actually overpowers anyone.

    Is Yao more of a finesse player than Dream, Mchale, Duncan, Robinson, or Ewing? All those guys were finesse players in their prime. Barkley is the only recent big man i can think of who used power almost as much as Shaq, and he still relied on finesse as well. When Karl Malone was getting to the finals, he was a finesse player shooting fadeaways and flopping for freethrows.

    In fact, I might venture to say that Yao is the closest thing to a power player other than Shaq in the league right now. Can anyone think of a top-tier player who uses more power in their game? Yao didn't shoot 55% by using the shangai shake all the time. He worked for position close to the basket and finished.
     
  4. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

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    Don't forget Kareem and Wilt. Yes Wilt. Granted this had more to do with the fact that they kept adjusting the rules so he wouldn't dominate as much (I mean they didn't even allow him to dunk in college). If he ever tried lowering his shoulder and bouncing people out of the way, they might have just outright banned him from the league. Nevertheless Wilt was a guy who scored most of his postup point off of finger-rolls.

    And Kareem was all about the sky hook. He wasn't running people over and initiating contact. Just the opposite, he always spun away from the defender. Not to mention the fact that he was a pretty scrawny dude by today's standards.

    I'd say the only other great big man that can be truly classified as a power player is Moses. And that has more to do with his relentlessness on the offensive glass than his back-to-the-basket game.
     
  5. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    I thought Amare was a PF, and the list I think is OK, in one or two years Yao will be No. 1
     
  6. v3.0

    v3.0 Contributing Member

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    I like Yao and really want him to succeed (since he is a Rocket) but he seriously needs to cure this butterfingers and out of breath when running 2 times across the court dilemma.

    Proof is in the pudding and what I want out of Yao this year is to average at or near 10 rebounds to think he is making progress. I know Stromile is suppose to help in this department and therefore Yao chance's of averaging 10 is greatly lowered, but I've seen other C/PF combos averaging at or near 10 (not that I'm expecting Stromile to averaging that, I'm realistically thinking around 7 or less for Stro).

    Scoring wise, this is where TMac's next challenge is (and to lesser extent, the rest of the team). I know TMac is good enough to defer to Yao and get him enough touches where Yao can average more points this year, and still be able get himself (TMac) his own points and still average above 20. In order for Yao to average above 20 himself, TMac must make a conscious effort to look for him...yeah the rest of the team should look for Yao also, and JVG can make an emphasis on this (like he hasn't tried to do this before), but TMac should know he has the power if Yao can average 20 or not. This is of course assuming Yao keeps developing his post moves as he has one of the best touches around the basket amongst low post players...and also if defenses are going to gear to stop him and then this is where TMac takes advantage of defenses doubling down Yao...and of course the other small fact that will enable Yao to average more this year...

    Yao needs to stay in the games more (foul trouble), I know a majority of the foul trouble is total friggin bogus touch fouls from refs, but Yao will have to work around this until he gets the superstar calls and respect from refs. Dream had the same problem but later in his years he curtailed it and he started getting the superstar calls from the refs. Yao has to understand he is bigger then his defenders and his movements are magnified more because of this. Yao has to figure out his foul trouble dilemma, then win JVG's trust to keep him in games more because I've noticed Jeff yanking Yao and keeping him on the bench for long periods, mostly due to Deke having a great game and Jeff doesn't want to ruin the momentum by pulling Deke. Yao should be playing at a level where the only reason Deke is in the game is to give a breather for Yao or...yeah foul trouble, not because where Yao has been inneffective in the game. As much as I like Deke, seeing him in games alot just means that Yao still hasn't figured out how to be the dominant franchise player he's suppose to be...or at least what we are waiting for Yao to be become. Yao better figure this out soon because Deke ain't going to be around much longer and I shudder to think Yao is still struggling to stay on the floor and Deke not around to make up for him, which spells TMac having to carry the team more. I venture to say that we won't get a better backup for Yao then Deke anytime in the near future after Deke retires.

    Yao...I expect alot out of you this year and won't cut you much slack, you've had enough time to figure things out and you have the talent to carry the team to the next level (TMac has already proved himself and I already know know what to expect from him as far as contribution towards the team's success, this can't get out of the first round blame is bogus BS).
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    What an ugly list.

    There aren't many good centers left.

    Only Shaq and Yao are quality big men the rest are just average at best.

    DD
     
  8. Hakeem06

    Hakeem06 Member

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    ^^^
    are you kidding??? amare isn't a quality big man?? i know he isn't a natural center but his is going to play it for yet another season and was completely dominate at the position last year.

    regardless i disagree with this list putting yao before amare. i know a lot of people will hate on this but it's the truth. amare is RIGHT NOW and probably in the future too, a better player than yao ming. yao is going to be a great player and be one of the cornerstones in bringing this franchise another championship but amare is a better player. he's a better scorer, rebounder, and defender. yao is getting better but amare is flat out awesome.
     
  9. KeepKenny

    KeepKenny Contributing Member

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    Better defender my ass. Amare has made about, oh, one good defensive play in his career. At least Yao tries to keep his man from scoring. Rebounding, they are pretty much dead even for their careers. Neither of them are great at it, but good. Yao is probably a little better per minute, though that doesn't mean much.

    Amare can score, but that doesn't make him dominant in my book. It would be hard not to score with the team surrounding him and the pace they played last year. Hell, Steven Hunter had stretches where he looked like a young Karl Malone in that offense. I'll wait and see how Amare does handling more double-teams this year. Besides, a lot of people could score a ton of points if they cherry picked all the time and played as little D as Amare.
     
  10. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    So if you can re-do the draft, you select Amare over Yao, or not?
     
  11. R0ckets03

    R0ckets03 Contributing Member

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    WTF are you smoking? And can I have some of it?
     
  12. LFE171

    LFE171 Member

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    Haha I hope Erick Dampier is reading this post. 2nd best center. bah! :p
     
  13. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    Amare's idea of defense is getting out of the way when his man drives to the basket. On several plays I have noticed him just slide over, givng his man an open lane to the basket, instead of even pretending to make an attempt to defend. Even if yao decided to do the same, he would still be a better defender than Amare simply because of how much he clogs the lane due to his size and presence. Yao has always been a better defender. He even eats Amare up during head to head games. Rebounding wise, they are both about the same. Both need improvements.

    You could present Amare as a better scorer. Even then, Yao isnt very far behind. Yao is actually better in terms of commanding attention to himself. Shaq and Yao change opposing teams gameplan just by their presense. Yao is a much better passer than Yao. Amare's game is brutish, while Yao's is more refined and polished. If a well rounded team is built around Yao, emphasizing team basketball, his skills will be maximized. IMO, he would be a perfect fit in Sacramento Kings, but I think JVG and Dawson have been doing a wonderful job of surrounding him with the right pieces. The only complain I have is that JVG does not utilize Yao's passing skills as he should.

    What Amare is way ahead of Yao is terms of imposing his will and fiery attitude. If Yao ever decides to be one mean sonofabitch, he will leave Amare in the dust.
     
  14. v3.0

    v3.0 Contributing Member

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    Amare struggled when Nash was injured and he's not that great of a defender. I know I've said he's a Shawn Kemp clone but now I'm thinking he's sort of a Karla Malone clone too...depends on a great PG for his production, gets better every year, but without the consistent outside J yet, also no real post up moves or patented pet moves, just depends alot on the 2 man game.

    Karl Malone is 2nd on the list of alltime points for players, has other records, but can anyone honestly say that Karla was a better player then Hakeem? Cause I can't, and not just because I am pro Rockets.

    Yao is maybe behind Amare as far as stat production and overall affectiveness to his teams success, but it's not like Amare would be tearing it up if he was on another team like ours, TMac won't baby and spoonfeed him the ball like he's been getting, it's not that TMac can't, it's just that TMac isn't a PG that his sole purpose of playing is to spoonfeed Amare the ball, which Amare needs for someone to do.
     
  15. krocket

    krocket Contributing Member

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    Absolutely! Shaq, and his dominant physical presence is almost unique in hall of fame centers. And don't forget Wilt had turn-around fall-away jump shot (similar to DreamShake) that was money. Also, he didn't average 50 pts for a season playing against the little people. He played against the likes of Russel, Thurmond and Lanier; all hall-of-famers.

    BTW: I think Motumbo belongs on that list based on his performance last year. IMO he outperformed some of the guys on the list.
     
    #15 krocket, Sep 15, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  16. droxford

    droxford Member

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    The center position has dwindled because the new rules aren't conducive to good play from centers.
     
  17. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    I count 5 of the 10 players listed as being forwards or converted centers. That Chandler managed to make the list is pretty sorry.

    Amare's defense is paltry, mostly because he half-asses it. He's a guy that's only thinking about getting back to the other end of the court. Only time he'll show up is if he can get an easy highlight reel weakside block on someone (not on his own man).

    As far as his offense, he's lethal in Phoenix's small ball lineup because almost no team in the league (aside from maybe Denver) can put out a frontcourt that's quick enough to guard both Amare and Marion. Teams had to bench their real centers or go to a zone (and Phoenix's backcourt was full of zone-busters). Adding to the problem is that for most teams, the center is responsible for guarding the basket against dunking slashers. No-can do if the center is guarding Amare or on the bench.

    I personally expect Amare to have a much harder time now that Phoenix has traded in small ball for a half-court game. Teams can put their center on Thomas and their PF on Amare. This also allows the center to cheat and help guard the basket against Amare's power drives.

    Evan
     
  18. A-Train

    A-Train Contributing Member

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    Where were the shooting guard rankings?
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    They were posted in the GARM because T-Mac was on the list.
     
  20. aries323

    aries323 Member

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    As long as Nash is in Phoenix playing the way he plays, you can pretty much expect Amare to put up Incredible numbers right up there with Lebron and TMAC but... BUT without Nash I dont think Amare is as good as his stats may say.

    And I do believe, If Yao had Nash, he would put up about the same numbers... I see Yao fumbling the ball, or getting the ball stripped a lot more than Amare. We definitely need to hit more 3`s this year to open up the lane for Yao to work. :mad:
     

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