Oh wow, that's extreme. With no run game, no o line, and no defense, Wilson MAYBE makes 2 games worth of difference at most.
With no run game, no o line, and no defense, they managed to lose nine games by 7, or fewer points with the 27th and 33rd-ranked QBs. If you don't think switching those two out for RW would have significantly swung the season - a season you could argue swung on Schaub's INT v. (ironically) Seattle... we can agree to disagree, I guess.
That's fair, we can agree to disagree. In the Kubiak system, RW would fare no better than Keenum did, he's a game manager and he would look awful if played any differently.
So you're suggesting a QB who has been remarkably good when throwing 30+ passes/game; a QB who was good enough to *at the very least* ride coattails to a championship; a third round pick who, as a rookie, beat out a highly-paid experienced free agent; a QB who's career record - for all the limitations W/L records have in evaluating QBs - is nonetheless 24-8; a QB who's career QBR 100.6 - you're suggesting *that* QB would have fared as well as an undrafted journeyman QB with almost zero plus NFL skills? Again... I know you've dug your heels in here for some strange reason (because I agree with your general take, re: RW) - but that's just silly. Russell Wilson - in *any* offense under *any* coach with *any* level of supporting cast - is a better QB than Case Keenum. He's better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, too. You can list all the "yeah, but"s you want - but it won't change that fact.
Perhaps better, but IMO not significantly so. It would be like trying to use a really kick-ass screwdriver to drive a nail. In that analogy Schaub is the broken hammer, Keenum is the cheap screwdriver, and Fitz is the wrench. None of them are really what you need in Kubiak's scheme because he asks QB's to throw the ball a ton, you're using 30 times a game with Wilson, but it's more like 35-40 which is a world of difference.
While you are both making good points, I think we should focus on the more important thing, Kubiak. and his system are gone. What do you guys think O'briens will be? I feel like he has big plans for the TE's and the Run game, and therefore I am not as scared of our lacking QBs.. Just curious as to what you guys think his scheme will be since you are discussing Kubes already.
I have high hopes that he'll be more flexible than Kubiak was. The fact that he thinks he can work with Fitz means that he doesn't think he needs the most talented QB to run his scheme, just a smart one. Let's hope he's right.
I talked to one of the 610 guys last night and apparently CJ fed is looking really good. If he can get his catching down he might take over as #1 in my opinion. Which will be good for Fitz to dink and dump, and less likely to throw interceptions.. but we'll see.
Oh I agree, I was really high on that pick, the era of the Kubiak undersized TE is over! Graham goes from being the "big" TE to the smallest TE on the roster. Word is that they are going to use CJ in the Gronk role so if he can pull it off, it should be exciting.
Last season Russell had a 102.9 passer rating in the 2 minute drill with a 6/2 TD-to-int ratio. Also in just two years he has 10 game winning drives and 8 come from behind victories. That's 18 wins he's directly responsible for with the game on the line which means the kid is a clutch performer. You better be scared if you think any QB on this roster can do what Russell can.
Well if you read my whole post, I did not say anything about Russell other than both of them made good points. I was not comparing anything to him because he is not on our team, and neither is Kubiak's system. I was merely bringing the conversation to BOB and how his NEW system was gonna be run and what that meant for our current QBs. I believe he is going to use a lot of short crossing routes, bubble screens, LOTS OF TE PLAY, and run the ball much more. Therefore, I am not as scared about how our QBs are so bad because all they need to do (as Bobbythegreat put it) is be smart and manage the game rather than throw it deep and perfect. I think Fitz can manage that and I don't really care what Russell can do he is not on my team. and while I don't think any of our QBs can do what he does, I also don't think we need a Russell for BOB's scheme. But once again we're back on the negativity kick.
Very easy for someone to say that when they work their remotes on Sundays and never played the position. That's a statement of people who don't value the quarterback position and or think it's a position that's easy to play, and not paying attention to our offensive line issues.
I do value the quarterback position. I just really like what BOB is doin. I think he knows Fitz is not an elite QB and is trying to play his strengths and avoid his weaknesses. 1. Fitz is not the most accurate, especially on the out routes and long balls..... So Obrien focuses on crossing routes and quick screens before the defense can get the jump on him. 2. BOB worked with Belichek who mastered the TE play making Gronk one of the scariest receivers in the game, and I think CJ can replicate that sooner rather than later. Fitz is not Brady (before you can jump on me for that) but I think he can manage it. 3. Foster will be running the ball. This makes it harder for Fitz to throw interceptions. 4. Our Oline is a concern, with Brooks out, Newton sucking... but Duane is strong, BOB used 2nd overall pick on one of the best guards in the draft who is learning the whole Oline, he is also requiring the same versatility from Ben Jones.. THEN HE GOT CJ. - as you can see BOB is trying to fix all our problems, he sees them, hence my optimism. this will also be helped by quick passes. Don't mistake optimism for lack of knowledge, I just think it can work.
I disagree with everything you said but I hope you're right buddy The regular season will be here soon and we'll find out...
To take this point by point, For whatever reason, there are still people out there that think football is a one on one game played between QB's rather than realizing that QB is just one position. A truly great QB is an awesome thing to have, but it's a requirement for winning as the last 2 SB championship teams found out. I think more important will be using a multiple offensive attack, using Foster as more than just a RB, using multiple RB's, using quick routes, using occasional deep passes. Basically just keeping defenses on their toes and keeping them guessing as opposed to being really predictable, having a smart QB that can make changes at the line will help this. More so than just "working with" Belichick, O'Brien actually was the play caller for those Pats teams. While I don't think CJ will exactly replicate what Gronk did, I think he'll be one hell of an offensive weapon both as a blocker and as a receiver. Hopefully we'll use 3 RB's to take some of the load off of Foster, part of the health problems he had last year was his 426 touches in 2012 between the regular season and playoffs....that's absolutely ridiculous and hopefully never happens again.....by comparison, the most touches Earl Campbell ever had in a year was 410 and the Oilers absolutely ran him into the ground. The line is still a concern but like you say, I think they'll be better this year than they were last year. Agreed again, it's probably not a one season fix, but things look like they are moving in the right direction. Wisdom is often confused for foolishness by fools.
