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California Colleges Mull Return of Affirmative Action

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pirc1, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    SCA5 just passed the california senate, looks like 43% percent Asians Americans in UC system is too much for some people.

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/california-college-university-affirmative-action-sca5-249985511.html

    California Colleges Mull Return of Affirmative Action
    By Ted Chen | Wednesday, Mar 12, 2014 | Updated 7:27 PM PDTView Comments (5) | Email | Print


    California universities are considering whether to bring back affirmative action policies in effort to more evenly diversify schools that have historically underrepresented certain groups.

    But not everyone is in support of the potential policy return, claiming the move will force discrimination in college admissions, especially at University of California campuses.

    "You're telling all the students who work hard all their life to say, 'You are not getting in because of your color,'" parent Vivian Chan said of her Asian daughter, a student whom she fears will be penalized.

    Race is at the heart of the Senate Constitutional Amendment (SCA) 5, a proposal to overturn Proposition 209, which banned the consideration of race, sex or ethnicity in state university admissions.

    A coalition of Asian American groups believe SCA 5 is discrimination.

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    "I'm afraid a lot of Asian students will be hurt by this so-called SCA 5," high school guidance counselor Claire Wu told NBC4.

    One reason the Asian community is on such high alert over the proposed change may be the fact that UC schools over-represented that population with 43 percent of admissions in 2013.

    Caucasian applicants made up 26 percent, Latinos at 21 percent, and African Americans at 4 percent, according to UC admission records.

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    SCA 5's author, State Sen. Ed Hernandez, D-West Covina, aims to change those drastic differences in percentages.

    "The private universities, for example the Stanfords of the world, Yale, Harvard, they actively can use this in recruiting," Hernandez said. "The only place we cannot do this is in our university system."

    Supporters of affirmative action believe underrepresented students aren't getting the chance to compete at UC's elite colleges, and that includes Southeast Asian students who believe groups within the Asian community are subject to underrepresentation.

    "East Asian, Southeast Asian, South Asian, Pacific Islander, Native Hawaiian, like all of these groups, but some of them are actually underrepresented," UC Los Angeles student Olivia Tran said.

    But opponents maintain that factoring in race can hurt a student's ability to succeed in college if their academic skills are behind.

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    UCLA Professor Patricia Gandara, an SCA 5 supporter, said one group doesn't necessarily have to benefit at the expense of another.

    "We must recognize the needs of this state and expand the opportunity so that more underrepresented students can participate and we don't lose the Asian students," she said.

    The California Senate has already passed SCA 5, and if it passes the Assembly, it would go before voters in November of this year or in 2016.
     
  2. itstheyear3030

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    Normally, I would say this has no chance of passing, but the problem is that even white kids are being shut out, so there's no telling how white people will vote. Add that with the demographic change of California since 96...things are looking kind of dicey for California Asians.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I have no idea what will happen. I do know that it's a better education for everyone to be around as diverse a group of learners as possible.
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    It's not better for the more qualified person that loses their spot because they aren't the correct race.

    If Asians are disproportionately accepted, that needs to be addressed on the back end, not papered over with insidious racial preferences.
     
  5. itstheyear3030

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    Clearly Asians, an umbrella classification of people with roots in hundreds of different countries, are not diverse in the least. Neither are white people. Nope, only black and hispanic people.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    My question is why couldn't they improve the qualifications of the under represented groups. I could also go with an income based preference admissions policy. Why should a wealthy student from under represented group be admitted over a more qualified low income Asian student?
     
  7. itstheyear3030

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    Do you mean the front end? (ie primary/secondary education, parental involvement, etc.) SCA-5 is precisely trying to address the issue on the back end.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    yes thanks, I always get that expression reversed
     
  9. itstheyear3030

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    Because that way would take a lot more public resources on the front end (though probably less in the long run) and the results would take far too long to materialize for the politicians who pass the legislation to benefit in terms of re-election.

    And the government can only do so much. For instance, in NYC, there has been a stink about there being too many Asians in the public magnet high schools, so the city began offering free test prep services to black and hispanic communities. Nevertheless, the number of people who took advantage of the program were minuscule.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The problem really isn't race, the problem is that calls for "merit" based admission in our current society is inevitably resulting in colleges & universities, including public ones, becoming the exclusive domain of the children of the rich - more or less reinforcing a hereditary aristocracy. Even worse, the double-edged sword means that aspirational children of the poor are more likely to be fleeced by b=rate schools and for-profit hucksters by buying into the illusion that they can somehow access it, when in reality they're better off buying lottery tickets.

    Commode-dore's idea of a "more qualified" person, to the extent it can even be determined in something as subjective as ranking people (it can't) - breaks down into "had richer parents" over time.

    AA tends to undercut this, so probably is a good idea for that reason alone (though not the only good reason).
     
    #10 SamFisher, Mar 14, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  11. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Why does AA have to be race based. If like you said the rich are getting in, why not make it income based AA, which is much more fair.
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    This pisses me off.

    The reason Asians are over represented in California universities is because they focus on education and work their ass off in the classroom and with their homework. They prioritize education, and hence, they succeed. If other groups don't put that same focus on education, then that's their right, but why should they get a helping hand at the expense of others?
     
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    When in doubt, resort to class warfare! That's the ticket, Sam.
     
  14. wtfamonkey

    wtfamonkey Member

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    This will just do more harm in the long run. Studies have clearly shown this will hurt schools than help.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    fine by me, there's a good reason to have both though - once you discard the figleaf of "pure merit" - which doesn't exist, and realize that you're trying to control for birth (luck) - why not consider race OR income, which are both a product of birth (luck)?

    Essentially - if I say "income based" - knowing that something like a variaton of Texas 10% rule, or whatever it was, would result in a certain percentage of race-students - why is it any different than just saying race? Basically am I morally/ethically/whatever superior, becuase I used a proxy for race, instead of race itself?
     
  16. superfob

    superfob Mommy WOW! I'm a Big Kid now.

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    Please list out which races are lucky. I'm interested to know.
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    You don't understand what diverse means possibly or maybe you do. Either way you don't seem to understand how AA works.

    Having diversity within the many different Asian cultures is fine. But some diversity doesn't mean enough diversity, and the range of diversity is also an issue. If one group is under represented having them represented is good for those that are able to get in to the college.
     
  18. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Only qualified people will be getting in. Fixing things on the back end is important but those changes take time and the people who are in the colleges now shouldn't be punished with a lack of diversity in the meantime.
     
  19. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    I don't get the whole, "they don't get a chance to compete" argument. Everybody takes the same entrance exams. Seems that Asian folks are scoring better, and are thusly getting admitted at a higher rate. I don't think anybody should have a problem with that. If they do, they should study harder.
     
  20. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    There was an article last week in the WSJ about this. One benefit of schools in Cali experienced since AA was overturned was that they spent more resources on minority retention, and the graduation rates of minorities went up. It's not all about just getting in.
     

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