I currently reside in NO (where I moved from the city of my birth,H-town five years ago) ond would love to know the feelings of my fellow Houstonians regarding the planned relocation of the Hornets. Good, Bad, What. How soon do you belive Charlotte will receive another team? Do you think this will produce a new rivialry between Hou and NO? Just looking for feedback from persons other than those who live in Charlotte (sour grapes) and NO (throwing it in their face). At any rate now I will have an eastern confrence team to root for,(and once again live in an NBA city) but I'm still a rockets fan for life.
not for a while. one of many things have to happen: 1.new ownership. they simply didn't want to pay their stars (LJ, Zo', eddie jones, etc) 2.city interest. attendence was always down even when they're team made the playoffs 3.getting in bed w/ stern. he's all about business. the only way to get another team in charlotte is to 'persuade' him Do you think this will produce a new rivialry between Hou and NO? i think LA vs TX could start something. But until we can be as good as the hornets are now, y'all should look towards SA and the Mavs heh
While it is true the Rockets are having a hard time as of late I still belive. Good, bad, of flat out horrible they are still my Rockets. In fact the study of my NO home boasts almost nothing but Rockets memoribilia (though I may allot a small space for the Hornets in the near future). Thinking more I bet Dal or Atl would be a better rivialry. I say this because when I grew up in H-town I kind of remember NO being looked upon as our some what eccentric little sister. She was never as sucessful, but always had somthing that was just so charming and intresting you could not really bring yourself to hate her. Another question, it has become the concensus here (NO) that we are on the road to an economic boom in the Bio-medical and Tech industrys and that we are only several steps away from a return to glory. What is the concensus in H-town about NO?
BER, on New Orleans generally, I'm sorry to say I don't think Houstonians think about the town very much at all, except at Mardi Gras. I'm sure we know nothing of you bio-medical industry there, for the most part. I don't think much of a rivalry can be generated between New Orleans and Houston because they are in different conferences. If the Hornets moved to the WC, it'd be a different story. I'm going to do my best to not like the New Orleans Hornets. It isn't just residents of Charlotte that think the Hornets' owners are bastards. Given the way they've (1) handled the arena negotiations, (2) handled relocation, (3) handled their payroll (trading players to avoid paying them), I think the owners are too selfish to be supported. Of course, I'd feel differently, I'm sure, if they were coming to my town (afterall, I did root for nemesis Scottie Pippen, however lukewarmly, once he became a Rocket). Despite the problem the owners have of getting rid of top-dollar talent, I think New Orleans is lucky to get that franchise. The front office knows how to run a team. They are always competitive, despite trading away their best players. Of course, something will have to change to win a championship, but they should be in the playoffs frequently.
Charolette Hornets = New Orleans Hornets New Orleans Jazz = Utah Jazz Utah Jazz = cheap, dirty GAYASS team these hornet biatches are goin' DOWN...
BER, welcome. I like the players on the Hornets but like others have mentioned, I have a problem with their management. I am not a pro football fan, but I grew up about 50 miles from Cleveland, OH where the fans were about as loyal and fanatic as anywhere. Over the years...win or lose... the open air stadium on Lake Erie was packed with 80.000 game after game. Then the b*****d Art Modell ripped the hearts out of the people to line his pockets. I'm not saying it's exactly parallel, but it's close enough to turn me off to that aspect of the team. I haven't heard anything about realignment so probably not a natural rivilary. Besides (as you already know) the Spurs and Mavs are all we can hope to handle for the short-term.
Thanks for the welcome Gater, I actually did not expect many Houstonians to know too much about the economics of NO. I was just wondering what the preception is in Hou at this time as I have not lived there in 5 years. I can respect your position on the Hornets ownership, but I respectfully disagree. While I will not claim the owners are saints, I also question the compentency of the Charlotte city council and mayor. They should have learned a lesson from Cleveland (Browns) and Houston (Oilers) about building a new arena. I do not agree with the current climate of pro sports facilities being funded publicly, but that is the way things are. If you want to keep the team build the facility or risk loosing them to some one who does. Like my Dad always said what is right usally differs from the way things are. This Is the way things are currently and you have to live with or without based on your decisions. I just do not think that poor ownership is a reason to dislike a team. I distinctly the Rockets having bad ownership, prior to Alexander, but that did not make me any less of a fan. I'm not going to start the whole Clt,NO,Hornets arguement (I'll save that for the NO board) As far as a rivialy like I said before I think Atl would possibly be the best for NO.
Yeah, I'm completely against the whole idea of the Hornets moving to New Orleans now that I've been banned from NewOrleansHornets.com for standing up for my nine year-old son when he was verbally attacked in a profanity-laced, unprovoked post by a New Orleans poster. It's not bad enough to be attacked and have my son be attacked (and he wasn't even posting. I just made mention of his birthday being today), but to be banned for complaining about the attack is over the line. If that's representative of New Orleans, then I hope the whole place falls off into the ocean and "fans" such as that slide off into the firey depths of Hell. But that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
I'd rather not subject the people on this great board to the issues you have with our board but I feel it necessary to address what you've posted here. First, you weren't banned. I removed your username because you were in the process of deleting all of your posts on the board save for a few to "let people see a line in your signature" that disparaged our board. We had a small exchange through private messaging and that's the appropriate venue to get this solved, imho, without subjecting visitors to a personal beef between two or three people. Secondly, the post made by a member over there was unacceptable and I told you as much. It was not, in my estimation, an attack on your son. The poster said he didn't give an expletive if your son and he shared the same birthday. Regardless, it was an unacceptable comment and was deleted immediately (along with other posts that were in direct reply to that post). A private message was also sent to that user as a warning that those types of behaviors are not welcome on the forum. Thirdly, I attempted to explain my position to you in a private message but you decided it best to air your grievances for all to see. The fact of the matter is that people post inappropriate things on message boards (such as your "falls into the ocean" comment). Moderators attempt to maintain a level of decorum on their boards and that's what we've attempted to do on our forum. As one can imagine, this is a very difficult task given the fact that we are a site dedicated to the relocation of another franchise. We were beseiged with flamers who took their cue from a Charlotte radio host who said on numerous occassions, "if you don't get banned from that board, you're not doing something right". Seemingly every day we've been hit by at least one person who simply wants to degrade the experience of the average user on our board whether it be by posting racist, obscene or flame-baiting posts. We were forced to take a more proactive stance in our moderation to protect the target audience of our website. Back to your issue -- As I've said, I attempted to explain my position to you but that was soundly cast aside due to your emotion over the issue. I can completely understand your view and said so to you personally. But it must also be said that because of the sheer nature of internet message boards, it's advisable to not let things get to you personally if at all possible. It would be very easy for me to take your comments about my city falling into the ocean (gulf?) as a personal attack but I realize that you are speaking out of raw emotion. I extended my desire to have you continue on our board in a private message and that invitation stands if you ever wish to participate on our site again. Regards, Brad
That's essentially being banned. I'm not able to post there anymore even if I wanted to. And since people were asking me what the issue was, I thought I would explain it in the open where I believe disputes should be aired so people know who they're dealing with. It my estimation it was an attack on me and my son. That's the thing, though, you've been very quick to ban significant numbers of posters for what, in my estimation, has been far less than the personal attacks on me and my son. Why is this poster allowed to continue on your board (and I am not) when others who have not subjected regular posters to the same personal attacks against them and their sons are banned. Forget the whole issue of deleting the post. Why not get rid of the troublemaker who's response to my noting that my son had the same birthday was a profanity-laced tirade against me and my son? If it is so important to maintain a level of decorum that includes banning people who do wrong, why wasn't he banned? Just because he wasn't attacking the city of New Orleans? Because he wasn't from Charlotte? That seems to be the only reason I can come up with. I didn't mention you by name. I said that IF alon504 was representative of New Orleans, then I hope blah, blah, blah. You now seem to be saying that he does represent you in that you take it personally. Of course, I likely would've been banned for that because it's not okay to say something about New Orleans but is okay to curse about people's children. And you do ban people all the freakin' time for saying such things. If the message board is going to be the free exchange of ideas and I just have to ignore the troublemakers, why are other troublemakers routinely banned? A troublemaker is a troublemaker. It's not like here where people being banned is rare. The list of banned posters at NOHornets.com is HUGE and some get banned for what appears to be relatively innocuous behavior, certainly some for far less than cursing about someone's nine year-old son. How can you say that I need to have thicker skin after you've banned so many folks for insulting your city? Had he attacked your son would your answer be the same (rhetorically. You're going to say yes now, but that may or may not be the truth) Had he been from Charlotte, would he have gotten as much leniency? Can't well participate when I've been removed from the board even if I wanted to. And why anyone would want to participate in a board where not all troublemakers are treated the same is beyond me. It's okay to attack my children (that won't result in being banned), but say something bad about the city of New Orleans and you're out the door. If you'd have handled the situation properly and fairly (banned him like you ban so many others when he attacked me on multiple threads and attacked my son), I wouldn't have had to leave. I thought I contributed something there that was worthwhile. Apparently that wasn't worth keeping because when I and my son were personally attacked in a profanity-laden tirade, you turned your back on me (as a matter of fact, you didn't even dispatch a PM to him to tell him to cool it down until I made an issue of it, according to your PM to me). Had it been a Charlotte poster saying something about your city, you'd have been racing to the ban button.
So tell me how alon504 is different? Tell me why he gets to get away with flaming another member in good standing completely unprovoked? How is letting him get away with that without ANY PUNISHMENT AT ALL taking a proactive stance? He violated TWO of the three things you mentioned there. He was obscene and he was flame-baiting. By not banning him, that's telling him it's okay to harrass other posters. It's okay to curse at them and bait them by attacking their nine year-old sons. That's no proactive. That degrades the experience of the average user on the board. I did nothing to provoke him. He baited me into an angry response. Why would you not ban him if you are taking a proactive stance in your moderation to protect the target audience of your website? All you're telling me is that it's okay for posters to be flame-baiters as long as they are from New Orleans. That there's a double-standard for acceptable behavior on your board. You're proactive for some and far less so for others. Bait me from New Orleans and you're golden. Bait New Orleans from Charlotte and you're banned. To me, it needs to either be one way or the other. Either you're proactive and you delete and ban at a high rate anyone who violates these rules (which alon504 most certainly did), or you keep it open and let the chips fall where they may with banishments being rare. You're stradling the fence. You're proactive sometimes and not-at-all other times. You can't very well expect people to not be p.o.'ed when their attackers don't get banned when so many other attackers do get banned for the same and less. So spare me your claims that you're being proactive. It's exactly your not being proactive that's caused this entire dispute. Ban him instead of turning your back on a quality poster and the whole thing is avoided. But you chose to keep the flamer and lose the quality poster. Your choice. Your board. Your right. But you can't simply explain that away with claims that you need to be proactive when the fact that you weren't proactive caused the problem.
People were asking questions because you continued to post about it even after I addressed you in a private message. I certainly don't discount that. Moderating posts and posters is not an exact science as we're dealing with individuals with different perspectives. How many posters have been banned there? And for what reason? Most of the time no one sees what was posted because we delete the message and then moderate the poster. If it was "okay" then the post would not have been deleted. And I explained to you why I didn't send him a PM initially. I did not see the reference to your son, I only saw his veiled curse words at the beginning of the post. After I re-read the post, I sent him a PM. We are in a unique situation over there. Most of the visitors to this board are presumably Houston fans. Even if some are not, they're not predisposed to literally despise the fact that you have a website up that is dedicated to "stealing" their NBA franchise. 99% of the Charlotte posters are not going to be around a couple of months after the relocation is approved and have no interest in the New Orleans Hornets. It's your right to feel slighted by the action that I took and I can't do anymore than I've already done to explain my position. Rather than clutter this board with my explanations with regards to a private matter, I'll leave it here. You're welcome to contact me through e-mail if you would like to converse further. Regards, Brad
I've said my piece and explained my position. You choose to continue the double standard and allow people from New Orleans to make posts that flame-bait and are filled with obscenities - two of the three things you claim to ban people for (I guess you forgot to mention that you only ban Charlotte people for that. New Orleans people can do it all they want). If there is no punishment when there is punishment for those actions by others, then the moderators are condoning the actions of alon504. Why anyone would want to be part of a board that condones attacks on nine year-old children is beyond me. But it's your board. I don't know why you don't just tell every New Orleans poster to just not take anything said personally instead of banning the people who made the comments. Why is that advice only for me? Again why is it okay to break two of the three rules in attacks against me and not okay in attacks against your city or whathaveyou? The only difference is that it was a New Orleans poster who attacked me unprovoked. If you're from New Orleans, the very rules that you cling to here in your defense don't apply. He deserved to be banned. He broke two of the three rules you yourself clinged to. You chose not to ban him. Yes, that's going to hack me off because it shows that I'm not as important as any number of other people on your board. Attacks against me do not carry the same weight as other attacks. You pushed me off the board by not enforcing your very own rules against the poster who broke two of the three against me.
I live about an hour and a half from Charlotte. Today's paper had an article about the City preparing to build a new arena in order to attract another franchise down the road. Is it possible that they just didn't like Shinn that much?! After all, he's the guy who turned away MJ. Imagine the Hornets with MJ starting and Wesley coming off the bench! They have a very nice collection of players including a future (present?) star Baron Davis. New Orleans is lucky to get them.
Big Easy.... I too live here in New Orleans, & I too agree that the Economics are on an up swing, however there is not enough money here in the city to support a second large sports franchise, especially one with 40+ home games, at an average cost of $20-$40 bucks a ticket. I think that in 4 years from now the Hornets are going to have it tough. They just signed a 10 lease...which means the state has successfully, brought a team here to wither away like all of those starving kids in Africa. (exposed ribs, flies, and all) The only reason the Saints survived is that there was a true monopoly. Now the Hornets are "here" Saints season tickets are down tremendously!! I WILL root for the Hornets, but I think that they could have gone to a better city. New Orleans' sucks, this city can't afford to do both. GO HOUSTON ROCKETS, ASTROS, and TEXANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Charlotte did learn a lesson from the Oilers and Browns. The lesson is, if a city is important enough, you can let a franchise with a crappy owner leave and the league will eventually put a new franchise in your city later. It worked for Houston and Cleveland and there are already intimations that Charlotte may get a new team later. Bravo for them for not bowing down before Hornets' ownership. Even though Houston has gone many years without football now because we refused to build a new stadium for the Oilers' owner, I don't regret our decision one second. The guy was a jerk and I'm glad to have him out of town. Now, we have a new stadium, a new team, and a new owner. I will still always hate the Titans with a passion, though.
Are the Hornets going to become a Western Conf. team now? Who will go to the East if that does happen, Memphis?
Houston: Fourth largest city in the USA; logical market after Los Angeles. Cleveland: Browns are one of the original NFL franchises; severe backlash from sports fans around the world Charlotte: Expansion team; college basketball market. --- If Charlotte thinks they're getting another expansion franchise, they have got to be dreaming. Of course money talks but they will pay a lot. Charlotte's only chance is relocation and it doesn't look like any teams will be moving.
