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US Opposes Cease Fire in Lebanon.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    George pushed hard to have the G-8 not come out in favor of a cease fire.
    Now this.

    ********
    WASHINGTON - The United States government continued yesterday to monitor developments in Lebanon, but the only practical measure it took was sending a task force to Beirut to plan the evacuation of U.S. nationals should that become necessary.

    Regarding the war itself, it was hard to misjudge the mood in Washington. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she didn't see how the immediate cease-fire that Lebanon has called for would solve the problem. She also said that in a conversation with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, she expressed concern about civilian casualties in Lebanon.


    There were no calls on Israel from the American administration to halt its attacks yesterday. U.S. President George W. Bush has in recent days repeatedly accused Iran and Syria of fomenting the crisis.

    The administration is busy with the G8 summit, which Bush is attending in St. Petersburg, with the Iranian nuclear program high on the agenda. The U.S. hopes to leave the summit with an agreement among the eight participating heads of state to increase pressure on Iran via the UN Security Council.

    A Bush spokesman denied reports Friday that the president plans to pressure Israel. Diplomats in Washington say there is agreement at this stage to allow Israel to continue its actions against Hezbollah and Lebanon before any real international intervention to resolve the crisis. This policy has thus far not garnered criticism of Israel from senior American politicians on the left or the right.

    Former Republican majority leader Newt Gingrich and Democratic Senator Joseph Biden both appeared on television's "Meet the Press" program yesterday and both said they held Hezbollah, Syria and Iran responsible for the situation. Gingrich went so far as to call the warfare in Lebanon part "of the third world war."

    The American press is covering the Mideast extensively and many editorials have expressed support, albeit reserved, for the "Israel's right to self-defense" formula, although some have stated reservations about the extensive attacks on civilian infrastructure
     
  2. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Don't tell me you're surprised. Is there anything Israel could do that we wouldn't back them up on?
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Invade Texas?



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  4. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Israel has a right to defend herself. - Mr. Bush...

    And apparently they have the right to destroy sovereign, peaceful nations and brutally murder hundreds of innocent civilians as well.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Lebanon has been allowing Hizbullah to live there in relative peace. That cannot go on. Therefore the country will be destroyed, much like Afghanistan was for harboring terrorists.
     
  6. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Are you that delusional that you're comparing Afghanistan to Lebanon?

    Afghanistan was ruled by the Taliban government, a state sponsor of terror. Lebanon has a democratically elected government, is a sovereign nation, with a secular government, and a population that is a unique mix of Muslim, Christian, and Druze. Tourism has been flourishing there lately, and they have a relatively strong economy despite the absence of oil.

    Guess who suffers from the Israeli terrorist attacks on civilians in Beirut? The hard working Lebanese and innocent women and children. If the Israeli's wanted to disarm Hezbollah, they have no business firing rockets into the major cities, since Hez is located in Southern Lebanon.
     
  7. crimson_rocket

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    Yeah, I wish they would at least attempt to give a rationale in the face of unanimous condemnation from the rest of the world. Two kidnappings to warrant war? There has to be something else to justify this kind of "defense."
     
  8. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    I agree with Baqui. The situations between Lebanon and Afghanistan are too different. Unlike Afghanistan Lebanon has a democracy and isn't culturally, economically or diplomatically isolated like the Taliban were. By collectively punishing all of Lebanon diminishes support for the pro-Western groups in Lebanon and further while it weakens Hezbollah it also weakens the Lebanese government as a whole and it makes it harder for economic and cultural development that will strengthen moderate and secular forces in Lebanon.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Bottom line is that Hizbullah, a terrorist organization, should not have been allowed to exist as they did in Lebanon. Whether or not the Lebanese government had the power to get rid of them is another story, but Israel shouldn't have to stand for a terrorist organization camped out on its northern border.
     
  10. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    I think Israel desires to finish off hezbollah and this gave them a great opportunity and justification in their mind. Now whether you think that's a real justification or something on par with LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin Resolution is your call.
     
  11. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    America's reaction, although expected, is far and away the most disgusting and troubling aspect of this entire ordeal to me, as an American. We're not even talking about a condemnation of Israel's action - we're talking about a ceasefire. That they blatantly are supporting the killing of innocent life is indefensible. "Hearts and minds" my ass.
     
  12. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    Using the same logic, Israel, a military force who has not once but twice destroyed a thriving country with one of the crowned jewels of the world should not be allowed to stay. Whether or not dissidents in the South have been terrorizing it's neighbors is another story, but Lebanon shouldn't have to stand for being invaded or bombarded.
     
  13. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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  14. losttexan

    losttexan Contributing Member

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    Ok, I admit it, I'm stupid!, but I have never understood, nor will I ever understand how killing people who dislike you on this scale will lead to peace?

    Say Israel's best case scenario happens and they continue the attacks and kill most of the Hezbollah leaders, kill hundreds of soldiers of Hezbollah find hundreds of rockets, and take part of Lebanon and turn it into a buffer boarder between themselves and Lebanon. They still lose. Hezbollah will become even stronger, animosity toward them in the Arab world will be heightened, their ranks will grow, arms will be replaced, and new leaders will rise.

    The only way such violence works is if you take the Romans approach. If you rise up we will level the city, rape all the women, and sell the population into slavery. In short, genocide. Small stuff like this is counter productive.
     
  15. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Delete. Not worth it.
     
  16. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Reason #1:

    hezbollah is an organization decades old and funded by Syria and Iran. 6 years ago Syria controlled Lebanon but was forced out by the locals in a long and bloody war in the 80's. Syria would like nothing more than to regain direct control of Lebanon.

    Reason #2:

    Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that is directly responsible for the murder of hundreds of Americans in multiple attacks during the 80's including the hijacking of airplanes and blowing up US military compounds overseas.

    Reason #3:

    Hezbollah, like the new Palistinian government, pretty much has a stated objective to wipe Isreal off the map. Given that Hezbollah has a strong hold directly on the northern boarder of Isreal, it is LITERALLY only a matter of time before Hezbollah launches a full out attack ...as evidenced by the kidnappings. As you can see with Hezbollah's regional missle capabilities that can fire 100 miles or more, this is no small threat ...as we are seeing.

    Reason #4:

    Given that GWB has taken such a strong anti-terrorism stance since 9/11, he has no choice but to back Isreal since Hezbollah primary MO is to utilize terrorist tactics ...as evidences by the kidnappings of the Isreli soldiars.

    Reason #5:

    To knock out Hezbollah would be an indirect victory against Iran ...our current arch enemy.

    Reason #6:

    This conflict has LONG LONG LONG history that is incredibly complicated by religious, racial, geographical and political intricacies.
     
  17. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    The Lebanese infrastructure (airport, sea ports, highways) that Hizbullah has been leveraging to build their terror network cannot be left alone, or Hizbullah will continue to use it to their advantage. Hizbullah should never have been allowed to grow to the size they are, and Israel is trying their best to get rid of them. The Lebanese shouldn't have allowed them (Hizbullah) to get as big as they are - now they're paying for that inaction.

    EDIT: I love it when I catch rhadamanthus in his personal insult mood - I know he's out of logical points to discuss when he has to resort to insults.
     
  18. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Not really - I just occasionally have to make use of all that posting style I learned from the bigtexxx school of pwned.

    Meh...

    I'm really on the fence with this one. I don't have any sympathy for hezblowupah, yet I really think Isreal is again going about this the wrong way.

    I guess I have more of a madmax-ian approach, that this neverending cycle of violence is hardly any logical approach to peace.

    And I don't like the whole "terrorism" argument, it's just as silly as "he started it" when it comes to this issue. Terrorism is just a fancy way of saying "the side I don't support".


    Anyhow - HEZBOWNED!

    now the debate is over - i win.
     
  19. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    While the facilities may have been used by H, I haven't seen concrete proof on how H is using the facilities. Terrorists have used our airports and ports in the past. By that logic, maybe we should bomb our own ports and airports.

    I too wish H would have been contained, but H was formed as a direct result of the Israeli invasion and occupation. Who is to say that Syria and Iran can't start a new group if H were to be destroyed? The current bombardment simply polarizes the Lebanese public, and it leads to greater support for terrorist movements.

    I'm sure the government would have loved to destroy the H. However, this is a very young regime with an untested army. If Israel was having so much trouble with H, the Lebanese army wouldn't stand a chance.

    Now that you are resorting to personal insult of some sort, I hope you are not out of logical points. You have 77 posts left, and I expect quality work from you. I enjoy your posts and sometimes I do agree with you. Just not this time.
     
  20. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Hey, I agree with a lot of your post, rhadamanthus. Almost all of it. I think of, "hezblowupah," as a combination terrorist organization/political movement, who are being used by Iran, which probably differs from your view. After hearing today's statement from Tehran, that country is coming closer to being in a conflict it would regret, IMO. God, I hope not. I don't want any more wars with the Decider, that incompetent fool, still President.

    Frankly, I've been shocked at the level of rhetoric against Israel here, since this madness started. Their government has acted way out of proportion to the border incident, and has now gone far beyond even that, but I hear little about Israelis living under a rain of missiles, and even hints of gloating. Pretty bizarre.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     

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