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Caron Butler

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by TexasG, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. TexasG

    TexasG Member

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    Every team that passed on him will seriously regret it. He's got Paul Pierce written all over him.
     
  2. UNMKT4

    UNMKT4 Member

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    Words don't always mean success. As stated by Caron, " I'll prove all nine of those teams that didn't choose me, all wrong."

    I've heard that similiar comment by over ohh, say 57 players. The ones that didn't get choosen where their agents told them they would be.

    It's all talk. I'll wait to see if he can produce like PP before I defend his draft day words.

    Don't get me wrong he was killer at Uconn and the chance I saw him play in NY for the Big East tourney, he was Caron Like. Not paul Pierce Like. As stated by Bostjan Nachbar, "I don't want to be known as the next pedja or the next vlade. Look at me and call me the next and only Bostjan."
     
  3. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    I think he's got Ron Artest written all over him, and that might even be a stretch, because I can't see Butler being as good of a defender as Artest.
     
  4. TexasG

    TexasG Member

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    I actually don't blame you guys for not thinking Butler will be a star. You have to since the Rockets are one of the teams that passed on him but believe me the Rockets, and the other 8 teams will regret the day they passed on Butler.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I don't really consider taking Yao #1 overall instead of Butler to be "passing." It'd have been incredibly foolish to use the #1 on Butler, regardless of how good he turns out to be. Even so, I don't know what's up with the Butler bashing. Up till the draft, he was the most NBA-ready player and a future star and he's suddenly a poor man's Ron Artest? I have my doubts about the Paul Pierce comparisons (it was a crapshoot for even Paul Pierce to be as good as Paul Pierce), but I'm pretty certain he'll be good.
     
  6. Woofer

    Woofer Contributing Member

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    I'm not convinced Yao is all that. We won't be able to judge objectively the results of this draft for a few years. I don't understand how people for or against him can be so sure, either way.
     
  7. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    Bottom line: If the Rockets had passed on Yao and he became a superstar, they would never be forgiven for that. Yes, the chances of Caron Butler being a better player than Ming are pretty good (I think he will), but the Rockets COULD NOT pass up a chance at a 7-5 guy will so much upside.

    Besides, teams can go out and get a free agent swingman that could approach the talent level of Butler, but NO team can just go out and find a top-notch center.
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    If Caron Butler AVgs 20/5/5 for his career
    and
    Yao Avgs 15/10/3

    I'm satisfied with our pick

    Rocket River
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    The reason taking Butler would be foolish is that the Rockets -- if they thought Butler was the best player in the draft -- could have traded the #1 for, say, the #5 and additional assets and taken Butler there. Why pay more for Butler than you have to? To take Yao, you must pay the #1 or #2 pick: he's the most expensive player in the draft. As good as Butler might be, he isn't valued as highly and it'd be foolish to overpay for him.
     
  10. TexasG

    TexasG Member

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    That's exactly what they should have done. That's why I think the Yao pick was a bad one. They could have made it out of this draft with much more talent that they got.
     
  11. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

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    We get it. You don't like Yao.
     
  12. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    But Ron Artest IS good. In fact, he could end up being very good. He's one of the five best defenders in the league and does have some offensive skills. A lot of Rockets fans, including me, would love to have Artest. But let's face it, he's nowhere close to the #1 pick in the draft. Butler doesn't seem to be near as smooth and agile as Paul Pierce, and I don't even know I've ever really seen Butler create his own shot off the dribble. Paul Pierce is one of the most creative and versatile offensive players in the NBA. He can do fadeaways, shoot the NBA 3, post up, makes lightning quick spin moves in the lane. Quite simply, I do not think Caron Butler has the physical and athletic gifts of Paul Pierce, and he's got to add a lot to his game to even be on the same level as far as basketball talent goes. I'm not saying he needs to improve parts of his game to be like Paul Pierce, I'm saying he needs to actually add new dimensions to his game just to be even mentioned the same sentence as Paul Pierce. That's why I can't understand how some people can make the connection between the two players with so much certainty.
     
  13. TexasG

    TexasG Member

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    It's not that I don't like Yao, I just think the Rockets could have done better. I think at best Yao will average 15/8. That's not bad but is that all you want out of a #1 overall pick? They could have parlayed this pick into franchise player or at very least got several players that will be as good as Yao including a stud SF like Lewis or Odom. Oh well, I guess what's done is done, we'll just all have to live with it.
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    The longer he drops, the more he has to prove. I don't think Rashard would've worked as hard if he didn't drop to the second round and have something to prove.
     
  15. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

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    If you had seen my posts immediately following the lottery, you would have noticed that I, also, was in favor of trading the pick for a proven commodity. I really wanted to see a Griffin, #1, whatever else it took... for Garnett trade go down. But, I quickly realized that that was just a pipe dream. It's a tough situation...We have no idea what Yao will become, but all we can do is draft him and hope for the best. As far as Odom, Lewis, we obviously weren't offered a good deal. I think that if the deal was fair, Rudy would jump at the chance to land either of them.

    Yao seems to want to get better, and with the tools that he has, he can become an excellent center for years to come.

    Personally, I kind of wanted to see us trade down and draft Woods, Butler, or Jeffries, but after watching some of the video clips, I have warmed up to drafting Yao.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how this experiment turns out.
     
  16. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Yao Ming is a special player, he is so blessed physically and talent wise it's not even funny. He is as fundamentally sound as Tim Duncan first entered the league. At 7-5 and 300 pounds, there is not many centers in the league who can throw him around.

    You know you got someone special when all Barkely and Kenny can rag about are his weight and language barrier. Not his mentality, not his working ethic, not his skills, not his physical abilities. Weight and English? Small piece of cake.

    As Marty Blake said, Yao Ming is the only true impact player in the draft. At his height, agility and skill level, he is the only one who has a shot to redefine the center position in this draft. I am not saying he will, but look around the NBA, who has a legit chance to redefine the center poisition other than Yao Ming? That chance alone worthes to spend the No.1 pick on him.

    Championships are won with big man, small forwards need to stand behind in the priority list, unless you think that Butler, Odom or Lewis can be as good as Larry Bird or Scottie Pippen.

    On the other hand, I do think Yao Ming can be as good as Tim Duncan.

    Not to mention we all know sf mean stand and shoot in Rudy's system.

    If Butler is that good, he wouldn't slip so far to No.9(?), Lewis was a high schooler so it's understandable for him to slip so far. The NCAA is really not all that, if it is, why the GMs in the league are busy spending top 3 picks for high schoolers and foreigners?
    Butler's success in NCAA has no bearing in the NBA. I will just wait to see Yao Ming swatting Butler to let him know where he really stands.

    One last thing, what is this fixation on Kevin Garnett? The guy always disappear in playoff crunchtime. He lacks power to supplement his moves to the basket, agility and explosiveness can only get him a turnaround jumper time after time. This guy doesn't have a killer move to save his life when it came down to the last minute. He is a nice 20/10 player, nothing more than that.
    He is never a dominant player and never will be, and his monster contract won't help the Rockets either. What's the point trading away our whole future front court in Griffin and Yao away for him?
    The Timberwolves are locked in mediocrity with Kevin Garnett, they would kill for such a deal, not the other way around.
     
  17. drapg

    drapg Member

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    someone should have told this to the Pacers.
     
  18. Genesis 71

    Genesis 71 Member

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    TexasG:
    :confused: Paul Pierce is very good. But is he the best at his position? Is that all Caron Butler should aspire to?

    That said, Butler is still a first round pick, expectations should be high for him. However, he has his work cut out for him if he is going to make all nine teams regret their draft day decisions. Best of luck. :)
     
  19. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

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    Just about.

    There is no one shooting guard that is head-and-shoulders above the others.

    If you consider Pierce a small forward, then it depends on whether you consider McGrady, Peja, Rahim, and others SF's.

    I'd say that Pierce is better than:Ray Allen, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Vince Carter, Michael Finley.

    And, about on par with:Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady.
     
  20. foodworld

    foodworld Member

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    Some actually forcasted Butler falling to #10. While there were quality players selected ahead of him, most of the teams were in a rebuilding stage drafting athletic forwards (Wilcox, Stodemire) and 19-year-old foreign enigmas (Tskitishvilli, Hilario). I don't think that any of those mentioned are NBA-ready.

    In 1998, Pierce dropped because (reportedly) he arrived at the camps out of shape - even though he had more than enough physical strength for any position he might play. Pitino, though nearly convinced to draft Keon Clark (!), claimed he did not hear the rumor and never analyzed a draft-day scenario in which he'd would fall to #10. With the exception of Traylor (my guess is that he was drafted just because of his inside presence - which Dallas needed), I could remotely understand why those nine players were chosen before Pierce.

    But that draft was especially screwy; just months before it, Miles Simon was a possible lottery pick - and he played a total of five games in his NBA career. Brad Miller didn't even get drafted, and Rashard Lewis was taken in the second round.

    Butler's comparisons to Pierce aren't entirely accurate: he lacks his range (there's a difference of about five feet), first-step, athleticism, etc. He will never make offensive contributions like Pierce has, but he'll be better than Lamond Murray because of his defense. A solid pick, but definitely not a steal.

    NOTE: In Bill Simmons' column, he pointed out that Drew Gooden was "shut down" by Holy Cross in the NCAA tournament - and for that reason must really suck. What was with UConn's near loss to Villanova in the Big East tournament?
     

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