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Kevin McHale will be TNT guest analyst for Rockets-Warriors game

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    In all honesty, in hindsight, we have had rather decent coaches over the years... even Don Chaney was decent winning a Coach of the Year with a disgruntled/injured Dream. Even our assistants have been decent over the years... but I am not impressed with Bickerstaff at all.
     
  2. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I don't know how you can say McHale had good fortune with the health of key players. It's true that Harden and Ariza have been heathy, but that's about it. Anyone that is a starter is a key player. The Rockets have been decimated by injuries year after year. Didn't we have our starters miss the most games of any team last year? I'm talking about Dwight, DMo, Jones, Beverley. Dwight has been in and out of the lineup ever since we got him. We've had to play guys like Greg Smith, Tarik Black, Pablo Prigioni, Joey Dorsey.

    On top of all the injuries, McHale had to deal with constant upheaval to the Roster. Few GM's are as busy sending players out and bring new players in as Morey. Every few months McHale had to start over with a new rotation.

    I know you aren't trying to crap all over McHale here, but let's not pretend that the roster has not been in constant flux since McHale got here. McHale had MORE challenges than most coaches due to injuries and player turnover, not LESS.
     
  3. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    Thank you for this post and I completely agree. Like you said, there is no way for us to know how much of McHale's success was due to his coaching or how much of it was due to the overall talent level of the team and other circumstances that are outside of his or any coaches control. Or, for that matter, how many of the players came here because of McHale or because of McHale's recommendation. There are so many things that happen behind closed doors that we as casual fans don't know about.

    I get that. And like I said in my original post, I am just a casual fan so there are a lot of other experts that know much better than me, but I consider McHale a good team-building coach but not a great tactical coach. If that makes any sense? So from that standpoint, for me, I probably wouldn't have given McHale the extension because at that point the team was already built. We didn't need a team-building coach any longer.

    But that's in the past. Rick Adelman was quoted as saying that he decided to come to Houston because we were a 50 win team the year previous and we had Yao and T-Mac. After he was fired he said that he came to coach Yao and T-Mac but ended up coaching Luis and Chuck. Things that were completely out of his control.

    Maybe McHale's success, similarly, was due to other things outside of his control? Maybe not. Maybe he was just lucky and in the right place at the right time? It doesn't change the fact that if he just look at what the team accomplished while he was coaching, he is one of the more accomplished coaches we have ever had. I just don't think there is any way that we can say he was "the worst coach we have ever had"
     
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  4. meadowlark

    meadowlark Member

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    Hint: refer to the words "reasonable person"
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I do think he should get credit for using the pieces he had when he had them, and dealing with the the fluctuations in the lineup due to the injuries to supporting players. Getting good minutes out of Dorsey, Paps, Black etc. he should get some credit for I get that. So yes, I do think that McHale had to deal with more support player fluctuations than most coaches, but Morey was always there to give him the right pieces he needed, and Harden (up till this year) was always great as a star player at making those pieces work with him as the engine.

    Harden has been the engine driving this team since McHale's second year. Harden was the reason this team went from a .500 team to 50+ win team. What I would say is that McHale did his job. He did well, but the primary circumstances that really made this team good were mostly out of his contract and primarily the result of what came from Harden & Morey (Morey finding these cheap role players to fill in, trading for misfits that just needed a change of scenery, and hitting on some nice young pieces).
     
  6. jump shooter

    jump shooter Contributing Member

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    I agree with a lot of what your saying Dobro, but just as McHale was held accountable for the opening 11 games Morey should be held accountable for this season as well. We need to remember that one of the main reasons Dwight came to the rockets was because of McHale and his being a Future Hall of Fame big man. Morey has done very well for this franchise but the question Les Alexander has to ask is can Morey get them the team and the right coach to get them past the Warriors (Curry, Thompson, Green), Spurs (Kwahi Leonard, LMA), OKC (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka) and the Cavs (Lebron, Erving, Love) for the near future. Also IMHO could the rockets have beaten the Clippers with a halfway healthy Chris Paul?
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    So heres my take on the 11 opening game s$%# show and McHale's part in it is this. Tell me if you agree, disagree, or whatever you think of my thoughts as it does relate to McHale's 11 game season.

    I think a bit part of NBA coaching goes into what we don't see in the Summer leading up to camp, and training camp itself. That's a huge part of making sure you are implementing the right sets, you are getting your team's defense lock & step, and you get everyone in the shape needed. Yes injuries can hold things back, but as a team, I expect much much much better than what this team produced for their training camp & preparation beforehand.

    Someone has to be held accountable for the piss poor training camp, and that's something that even McHale himself has said multiple times was something he's acknowledging was THAT bad. If McHale really slipped in his preparation and execution of training camp, that's a friable offense in professional sports.

    Of course we weren't there so we don't know how practices were held. We don't know how subordinate the players were. We just don't know, but at the end of the day that's his superbowl. That's his time to set up the season, and prepare the team for the season. The in-season changes from a playing style are never that dramatic, and the in-game calls are always going to be consistent for the most part with NBA caliber head coaches. Its the preparation, and the execution of training camp that really makes certain head coaches shine.
     
  8. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    I'd rank McHale over JVG, but that's it. Every other coach on that list did a better job and often times had less to work with(especially Adelman).

    But McHale was not a very good coach for the Rockets overall. He underachieved in 2012 when the team collapsed down the stretch and missed the playoffs. He underachieved in 2013 when the team again collapsed down the stretch and wound up facing OKC as the 8th seed instead of Denver as the 6th seed. He underachieved in 2014 when the team collapsed in the first round against an inferior Blazers team despite having homecourt advantage. And he nearly choked away a successful season in 2015 until the Game 6 miracle comeback against the Clippers. Credit him for finding a formula that worked(especially since it was sans Harden), but had they lost that game, McHale would be reviled by nearly every Rockets fan on Earth.
     
  9. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    While this is true, this could be said about any coach at any time really. Honestly, it is very difficult to evaluate how good of a coach someone is unless they have been coaching for a long period of time over a long variety of situations and talent levels.

    Look at Steve Kerr. Is Steve Kerr a good coach, or does he just have a historically stacked roster? Or is it a combination of both? Most people will point to the Warriors under Mark Jackson compared to now under Kerr. But under Jackson, Curry was good but not as ridiculous as he is now. Barnes was still just a young, promising but still developing player. Green wasn't as good or as multi-dimensional. Is that a result of those players getting older and developing as players? Is it a result of Kerr putting them in the right spot so that they can fully utilize their strengths? Kerr seems to be a good coach, but good is he actually? If he had taken the Knicks job instead of the Warriors like it was being rumored, would we still think he's a good coach? It's hard to say for certain. But, from Golden State's perspective, they are winning so it doesn't really matter if it is the coach or the talent or both.

    Going back to Rick Adelman who I talked about earlier- I actually looked it up because I was curious. When he left the Rockets he said, ""I had three experiences [before Houston]," he said. "At two, I had a lot of talent and at one, I didn't. I won at two places and didn't win at the other. I figured it out that talent is pretty important".

    Evaluating a good coach is difficult because even the best coaches can only make so much of an impact. They need good, talented players as well.

    McHale had some luck for getting good players while he was here. There's no question about that. Was last year a good year because of McHale's coaching? Or was last year a good year in spite of McHale's coaching? I honestly don't know. But it was a good year. And he was the coach. And results are, ultimately, the only thing that matters. He doesn't deserve all the credit but he did earn some of it.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Firing McHale 11 games in was stupid. It's giving into to lazy players who didn't want to do things the right way. The result is a .500 team.
     
  11. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    The firing wasn't stupid. It's what they did afterwards that was stupid. I get that Morey's hands are tied thanks to being hard-capped. But he and Les should've tried much harder to find a replacement for McHale.
     
  12. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    look at all the coaches that get let go during the season. Which of those teams actually go out and find a brand new coach instead of appointing someone already on the staff right then and there
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It was stupid because they had no plan on what was needed. It wasn't that - McHale is doing x wrong and we need to address it. It was, the team is 4-7 and let's fire the coach to shake things up after going to the WC Finals last year.

    I am sure the team regrets firing him at this stage. You think they would still fire him if they knew the result would be a 27-27 record?
     
  14. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    No, they'd probably just fire him after the season. But I actually think this is better. Now Morey and Les know how important coaching really is. They tried a players coach and failed. They tried a young, hungry, untested coach who learned under that same players coach and failed. Now they realize it's gonna take someone who's either experienced and proven or one of his top assistants.
     
  15. Liberon

    Liberon Rookie

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    Worst coach? That's taking too far. Come on. I'm starting to look at this rolled ankle too fat Harden thing in the beginning of the season. I know he didn't make sense in a couple of the rotations and timeouts but maybe, just maybe some of the other guys weren't exactly fit to play neither.
     
  16. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    Morey hit gold on James harden and he'll even admit he didn't think James would be a top 5 player mvp caliber guy.

    But let me ask you this? Other than that move what has he really done?

    I mean the parsons draft was awesome that was a find and you need that if your going To compete for championships. Dmo was also a nice draft pick, even if he isn't a starter level guy gojng foward I think we can all agree that he can be a rotaion big on a true contender assuming health. Finding bev was also a pretty good find seeing as he's really developed into a very good spot up shooter and energy guy.

    But outside of those guys what has he really done?

    Morey imo was not responsible for getting howard that was all harden because stars play with stars and hardens was as bright as any after that first year in Houston, hell ESPN ranked him #4 in the NBA heading into the season.

    Ariza was okay for a stop gap after parsons left and I admit I really like him as a role player.

    But he has been awful in the 1st round of the draft.

    We're is our Jimmy butler or bobby portis?

    Kawai Leonard? I mean these are Guys morey passed on and there is more.

    We just have not found the guys in the draft who have elevated there game to a certain level.

    Look morey is great at cap management he seems to create max room every summer but his player evaluation has been pretty mediocre at best.
     
  17. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    Morey - Very mediocre to below average at times first round drafting, good 2nd round drafting.
     
  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Do we REALLY need to do a run down and list of everything Morey has done right and wrong? Come on man. If you create a new thread for this subject alone it won't go well for the detractors that even objectively make a list and weigh both sides.

    There is a laundry list of moves Morey made that had a positive impact, and there are plenty of moves that you can make a case were negative. Modulate as you would like.
     
  19. jump shooter

    jump shooter Contributing Member

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    Agree to a certain extent Dobro, McHale was held accountable for the preseason and like you say lack of being prepared hence his firing, but who is held accountable for hiring him and their terrible defensive coaching?
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    So my opinion on that is as follows-

    -I had no problem with the hiring at the time. Yeah it was weird to hire a Celtic with history of killing the Rockets back in the day in a huge couple games, but it was really not that big of a deal to anyone other than the fans. Keep in mind that circumstance and time & place hold true. For what the Rockets needed at the time, I think he was solid for the job. He really was the face of the franchise and a voice when we needed someone especially when Morey was the butt of every NBA media guy's joke. Although he wasn't perfect, I think he coached well enough to keep his job up until he allowed for a botched training camp, and what surrounded camp before (prep), and after (11 game start). We can't judge today's sins on tomorrows actions. For that period of time, I think McHale was adequate from what I could see although obviously he was no Popovich. He got the job done.

    -Defensive coaching? Last year's training camp had a huge focus on overhauling the Rockets defensive approach. They changed some very fundamental things, and JBB was a big part of it. I give kudos for Morey for getting that through to the coaching staff last year that they needed to improve. This year however.... well who is held accountable??... McHale obviously that's why he got fired. Whose accountable after??... Well JBB. He's going to either win the job or not on how the team improves on that end. So far, the defense hasn't improved well enough for him to keep the job IMO.

    So in those two areas that's where I see the accountability. I'm sure Morey was held accountable by Les for extending him and wasting his money on McHale but to us as fans that really shouldn't matter. That's just Les' money. I'm not absolving blame on Morey here, but that's just the way I see it.
     

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