I think the issue here is your logic even applied to Christianity. 'Christianity' didn't moderate itself or change, the book remains the same. In America, 50-60 years ago, Women couldn't ascend, had to be housewives more or less, and were considerably shielded. Times have evolved. The KKK takes their White supremacy and puts christian and religious wording all around it, they continue to do it today. There are literal christian communities throughout the world who still live very differently. Their are Jews who are very modern and live upto date and then you have some that keep very old values and live in that manner and women have to shave their head, keep covered and men keep traditional dress, etc. Their are the aamish as well. And same goes with Islam. The Muslims in the arab world which are having political turmoil all over aren't going to be the same as the muslims in the states, norway, canada, so on. And even within those communities their are sub communities with their own beliefs. So 'Christianity', 'Islam', 'Judaism', etc have not changed at all, the people in different places continue to interpret and interest them in their lives and choose what to believe all around the world differently. You simply can not say the religion as a whole(any of them) are one way or the other because depending on circumstances, socioeconomic, political influences it changes from time to time
It's interesting to read this thread a few years later. The same people were OUTRAGED, tried to make the whole thread about me. Initially, I even corrected myself and said maybe you are right, this is not one-sided, may not be motivated by Islam, etc. Since then, Boko Haram has happened. Timeline of incidents 7 September 2010 Bauchi prison break[27] 31 December 2010 December 2010 Abuja attack[28] 12 March 2011 Assassinated Muslim Cleric Imam Ibrahim Ahmed Abdullahi for criticizing the violent groups in northeast Nigeria[29] 22 April 2011 Boko Haram frees 14 prisoners during a jailbreak in Yola, Adamawa State[30] 29 May 2011 May 2011 northern Nigeria bombings[31] 16 June 2011 The group claims responsibility for the 2011 Abuja police headquarters bombing[32][33] 26 June 2011 Bombing attack on a beer garden in Maiduguri, leaving 25 dead and 12 injured[34][35] 10 July 2011 Bombing at the All Christian Fellowship Church in Suleja, Niger State[36] 11 July 2011 The University of Maiduguri temporarily closes down its campus citing security concerns[37] 12 August 2011 Prominent Muslim Cleric Liman Bana is shot dead by Boko Harām.[38] 26 August 2011 2011 Abuja bombing[39] 4 November 2011 2011 Damaturu attacks[33][40][41] 25 December 2011 December 2011 Nigeria bombings[42] 5–6 January 2012 January 2012 Nigeria attacks[43] 20 January 2012 January 2012 Kano bombings[44][45] 28 January 2012 Nigerian army says it killed 11 Boko Harām insurgents[46] 8 February 2012 Boko Harām claims responsibility for a suicide bombing at the army headquarters in Kaduna.[47] 16 February 2012 Another prison break staged in central Nigeria; 119 prisoners are released, one warden killed.[48] 8 March 2012 During a British hostage rescue attempt to free Italian engineer Franco Lamolinara and Briton Christopher McManus, abducted in 2011 by a splinter group Boko Haram, both hostages were killed.[49] 31 May 2012 During a Joint Task Force raid on a Boko Haram den, it was reported that 5 sect members and a German hostage were killed.[50] 3 June 2012 15 church-goers were killed and several injured in a church bombing in Bauchi state. Boku Harām claimed responsibility through spokesperson Abu Qaqa.[51] 17 June 2012 Suicide bombers strike three churches in Kaduna. At least 50 people were killed.[52][53] 17 June 2012 130 bodies were found in Plateau State. It is presumed they were killed by Boko Haram terrorists.[54] 18 September 2012 Family of four murdered[55] 18 September 2012 Murder of six at an outdoor party[55] 19 September 2012 Nigerian Military arrests Boko Haram militants, reported death of Abu Qaqa[56] 3 October 2012 Around 25–46 people were massacred in the town of Mubi in Nigeria during a night-time raid.[57] 18 March 2013 2013 Kano Bus bombing: At least 22 killed and 65 injured, when a suicide car bomb exploded in Kano bus station. 19 April 2013 Deadliest attack since 2009: gun battle with security forces leaves 260 dead and nearly 1000 injured[58] 7 May 2013 At least 55 killed and 105 inmates freed in coordinated attacks on army barracks, a prison and police post in Bama town.[59] 6 July 2013 Yobe State school shooting: 42 people, mostly students, were killed in a school attack in northeast Nigeria.[60] 11 August 2013 44 people killed in a mosque in Konduga. [61] 29 September 2013 College of Agriculture in Gujba: 40 male students killed.[62] 20 October 2013 4 motorists killed in northeastern Nigeria. [63] 2 December 2013 Hundreds of fighters attacked a military base in Maiduguri. [64] 14 January 2014 At least 31 people killed, over 50 people injured by suicide bombing in Maiduguri, Borno State.[65] 26 January 2014 At least 45 people killed in the village of Kawuri. [66] 11 February 2014 23 people killed in Konduga. [67] 16 February 2014 Izghe massacre: 106 killed.[68] 25 February 2014 Federal Government College attack: Fury at military over Yobe deaths. At least 29 teenage boys dead at Federal Government College Buni Yadi.[69] 14 March 2014 Attack on the military baracks in Maiduguri, nearly 600 detainees freed. The latters were executed when government forces retook control. [70] 14 April 2014 2014 Chibok kidnapping: Government properties, including the only girls' secondary school, attacked. At least 16 killed or missing, and 234 female students kidnapped. The Boko Haram militants said it would treat them as slaves as part of the "war booty".[71] 14 April 2014 April 2014 Abuja bombing: Two bombs explode at a crowded bus station in Abuja, Nigeria, killing at least 90 people and injuring more than 200. 1 May 2014 A car bomb exploded killing at least 19 people and injured at least 60 in the same area of Abuja as the April bomb.[72] 5 May 2014 2014 Gamburu attack: Boko Haram attacked the twin towns of Gamboru and Ngala in Borno State, Nigeria. They started shooting in a busy marketplace, set houses on fire, and gunned down anyone who tried to flee. The death toll of the massacre has been set as high as 336. 13 May 2014 Menari, Tsangayari and Garawa: Boko Haram attacked three villages, killing around 60 people in Menari. Vigilantes fought back, killing over 200 Boko Haram militants.[73] 17 May 2014 Paris summit: A summit in Paris has declared Boko Haram is part of al-Qaeda as leaders from West African nations resolved to mount a region-wide offensive against the group that is holding more than 200 schoolgirls hostage in a dense jungle.[74] Western nations have pledged to provide technical expertise and training to the new regional African effort against the Islamic extremists.[75] 18 May 2014 Kano: Suicide car bomb kills five people.[76] 20 May 2014 Jos: Twin bomb explosions kill 118 people. 30 May 2014 Assassination of Muslim leader Alhaji Idrissa Timta the Emir of Gwoza in Borno.[77] 1 June 2014 Mubi bombing: An attack at a football field in Mubi, Adamawa kills at least 40 people[78] 2 June 2014 Militants dressed as soldiers slaughtered at least 200 civilians in three communities in Gwoza. A community leader who witnessed the killings said that local residents had pleaded for help from the military, but it did not arrive in time. It took a few days for word from survivors to reach the provincial capital of Maiduguri, because the roads are extremely dangerous and phone connections are poor or nonexistent. The slaughter was confirmed by both Mohammed Ali Ndume, a senator representing Borno and whose hometown is Gwoza, and by a top security official in Maiduguri who insisted on anonymity.[79] 29 May - June 5 6 attacks, killing 506 civilians, 5 military; 20 women and 3 men abducted. 60 Boko Haram killed by Cameroon's military[80][81] June 6 - June 12 4 attacks, killing 5 civilians, 6 military; military kill 50 Boko Haram[82] June 13 - June 19 2 attacks, 46 civilians killed; 8 Boko Haram killed by Borno vigilante group[83] June 20 - June 26 4 attacks, 93 civilians killed, 60 abducted. A military fighter jet bombed unknown number of Boko Haram in counterattack; 25 Boko Haram and 16 soldiers killed in attack on military base. Cameroon military killed 10 Boko Haram near border[84] June 27 - July 3 2 attacks, 112 killed[85] July 4 - July 10 4 Boko Haram attacks, 11 civilians, 1 vigilante, 33 soldiers, 4 police killed. 53 Boko Haram were killed while capturing a military base and police station in Borno on the 4th of July. On the 6th, soldiers killed a Boko Haram kingpin and his brother at their home in Kaduna; also on the 6th, 44 Boko Haram were killed in 2 military operations in Borno[85][86] July 11 - July 17 4 attacks, 81 civilians killed, many of these shot by fighter jet in a failed counter-attack. German teacher kidnapped and 2 vigilantes killed on July 16 in Adamawa, presumably by Boko Haram[87] July 25 - July 27 2 attacks in Kolofata, Cameroon, including the kidnapping of the wife of the Vice Prime Minister, Amadou Ali, as well as local religious leader and mayor, Seini Boukar-Lamine.[88] 11 August 2014 28 civilians killed, 97 kidnapped, all men and boys, in attacks on villages in Borno State in rural northeast Nigeria. Many homes torched in the raid.[26] 29 October 2014 Several people were killed after clashes with the armed forces resulted in Boko Haram taking over the second largest city in Adamawa, Mubi. It followed the overrunning of Uba in Borno. Kukawa local government chairman Modu Musa said that several people were killed especially around the market.[89] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Boko_Haram_attacks_in_Nigeria They also kidnapped and just forcefully married hundreds of girls in the name of Islam ---------------- Looking back at this thread, all these guys who viciously attacked me for posting about the Islamist activities in Nigeria were all dead wrong. This is clearly just as much about Islam as ISIS is about Islam and as Al Qaeda is about Islam. And all these groups do have varying levels of support among other Muslims, sometimes very high support. All that is ignored by the same aggressive mob of posters that attacked me on this thread, just for posting a news article which, as it turned out, was just the beginning of a much wider trend of Islamist attacks and an Islamist movement in Nigeria, due to which hundreds of thousands of people have already been murdered or driven out of their homes. Of course, rather than apologizing for their behavior, the same posters will continue the same behavior in other threads, until they will be proven wrong again. The only poster who has changed his mind since then is fchowd311.
http://observer.com/2014/10/muslims-on-barbarism/ Spicy piece about the lack of internal critics within the Islamic community, as well as exposing the enablers.
Excellent article. Sadly, it will fall on deaf ears with the leftist/Islamist mob crew here. Intelligent posters like fchowd311 might actually agree, though.
This article isn't even about those internal Muslims. Guys they are criticizing live in the west. Internal reforms are probably forgotten and ignored.
Let's see..."part of a tribal conflict that has been ongoing for centuries"...so that is what Boko Haram is, yes? "Most knowledgable people" would say that? Interesting example of SamFisher's unfounded arrogance. Boy, was he wrong. But that is nothing new. Another example of SamFisher's unfounded arrogance. Oh, he can differentiate between different strains of brown people? How noble of him. He can tell the conflict in Afghanistan and the one in Nigeria apart? What a genius he must be! And then this: http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1519044/un-security-council-says-boko-haram-linked-al-qaeda UN Security Council says Boko Haram is linked to al-Qaeda The UN Security Council has officially declared Boko Haram a terrorist group linked to al-Qaeda and imposed sanctions against the Islamists who have carried out a wave of deadly attacks and the recent abduction of nearly 300 schoolgirls in Nigeria. US ambassador Samantha Power welcomed the council's action on Thursday, calling it "an important step in support of the government of Nigeria's efforts to defeat Boko Haram and hold its murderous leadership accountable for atrocities". Nigeria, which is serving a two-year term on the council, asked the Security Council committee monitoring sanctions against al-Qaeda to add Boko Haram to the list of linked organisations subject to an arms embargo and asset freeze. There were no objections from the 14 other members. Australian UN ambassador Gary Quinlan, who chairs the al-Qaeda sanctions committee, said there was "very clear evidence" that Boko Haram members had trained with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, particularly in developing improvised explosive devices - "one of the main weapons of modern-day terrorism and particularly al-Qaeda". There was also evidence that a significant number of Boko Haram members had fought alongside al-Qaeda affiliates in Mali, he said. Quinlan said Boko Haram's current leader, Abubakar Shekau, also made "very, very strong statements of terrorist solidarity with al-Qaeda in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia" and other places in November 2012. Before Boko Haram's addition, the al-Qaeda sanctions list included 62 entities and groups, and 213 individuals who are also subject to travel bans. Quinlan said it was hard to say what the practical impact of sanctions against Boko Haram would be. One possible problem in tracking their finances, he said, was that large parts of the group worked in the jungle and probably used cash rather than "substantial or sophisticated financial arrangements for banking - but you never know". He urged all 193 UN member states to focus on Boko Haram as a violent al-Qaeda-related group, ensure that it was included in any national terrorist lists, and check their own country's financial and arms dealings to ensure that the organisation was not getting money or weapons. Boko Haram's five-year-old Islamic uprising has claimed the lives of thousands of Muslims and Christians, including more than 1,500 people killed in attacks so far this year. The group, whose name means "Western education is forbidden", has tried to root out Western influence by targeting schools, churches, mosques, government buildings and security forces. The homegrown terror group was largely contained to the northern part of Nigeria before expanding its reach with the help of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the terrorist network's affiliate in West Africa. According to the sanctions committee, Boko Haram is responsible for attacks and kidnappings in Nigeria and Cameroon and has also been active in Chad and Niger. Last Saturday, Nigerian President Goodluck Jonathan said that Boko Haram was acting "clearly as an al-Qaeda operation". He had previously insisted for years that Boko Haram was a local problem. -------------- Boko Haram and defining the 'al-Qaeda network' (...) Boko Haram's links to al-Qaeda extend beyond AQIM. At least one fighter was trained by al-Qaeda in Afghanistan (...) ---------------- But it's so great that great genius SamFisher can tell these conflicts apart. None of these guys ever comes back to simply say "I was wrong about this", much less to apologize that they ridiculed a posting of a news report of a developing conflict and tried to make the whole thread about attacking me. They would rather start threads asking for me to be banned.
The atrocities committed by them may be part of their brand of fanatic Islam, but having links to al-Qaeda doesn't necessarily mean everything they do is because of their twisted views on Islam. It might mean that they made an alliance in order to get information, resources, weapons, money, etc. Al-Qaeda may have made the alliance in order to further spread some sort of terror. Of course it could be, but simply posting a link doesn't prove what you are trying to claim.
They were murdering each other and "infidels" there long before oil played any role. And Islamists are murdering people in other countries, where there is no oil.
I think one thing we've learned is that we should support secularism anywhere we can in that part of the world.
True. When our biggest allies in the ME has been the source and exporters of extreme Islamism, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, minimizing oil's influence in that region would go a big way towards eliminating the source of Evangelism where money is backed with words. I'm aware Egypt has no oil, but it's a key player in Western foreign policy regarding that region.
this may be the most intelligent post you have made yet. Islam does not work as a theocracy, especially when there are sections of the population that are not Muslim. It could perhaps work in a country that is 100% Muslim, but that doesn't exist...
Theocracies don't work period. It failed for Christianity and it will fail for any other religion. Could you imagine if the Christian crazies in the U.S. were given the reigns of control of this country and what they would do? Secularism is the only thing that keeps fundamentalists at bay. The biggest mistake we made with Egypt, and this is squarely with Obama, was that he allowed the MB to write that constitution.
You are correct that theocracies don't work. I would argue that they don't work because they prohibit freedom of religion.
