1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Official] NFL: Week 11

Discussion in 'Football: NFL, College, High School' started by J.R., Nov 14, 2013.

  1. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    the ball is out his hands.
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,383
    Likes Received:
    15,808
    There was a view from behind Brady that clearly shows the ball is long out of Brady's hand before any contact. You'll notice in the view you have, Gronk only takes about 1-2 steps before the ball shows up on the screen - no way the ball travels 20 yards in the time he takes the 1-2 steps.

    As for the defensive holding, I don't know about how the rule is written, but that's how it's called. There's never a defensive holding penalty after the ball is in the air. You'll notice they often say "Before the pass was thrown, holding on number whatever". If the ball is in the air, PI becomes the call, if anything is called.
     
  3. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    15,645
    Likes Received:
    978
    Consider it Karma for the Pats/Saints game where the Pats got away with a blatant hold to rob the Saints of their win.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    17,969
    Likes Received:
    13,116
    I don't think that guy pushed Gronk at all. Gronk is clearly moving himself to the back of the endzone and really didn't show much interest in making a move back for the ball. If you're being held and you think you can catch that ball, you don't look anything at all like what Gronk looked like.

    Don't just watch the slow motion GIF, watch it in real time. The ball was well underthrown and nowhere close to where he expected it to be.

    I think there's a case that his arms were pinned down, but if it's uncatahble I guess it ultimately doesn't matter.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,668
    Likes Received:
    41,551
    I will take your word for it as I haven't seen that vid.
    I can't recall the exact incident but I've seen defensive holding while the ball was thrown also as noted the rules I posted don't mention before or when the ball is thrown. My own guess is that pass interference is a more severe penalty so in cases that could be both, when the ball is going towards a receiver, that is called. Also keep in mind that the ESPN analysis did say that it could be defensive holding which means it could apply.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,668
    Likes Received:
    41,551
    I am not so sure about that. Gronkowski is moving to the back of the endzone but he is turning to look at the ball. As the Defender hugs him just before the ball comes to the endzone you can see Gronk turn his body and bring up his arms like he is trying to head back but he can't.

    [​IMG]

    Yes it was an underthrown ball but I don't think it is automatically uncatchable if the defender hadn't grabbed Gronk. Remember in the Packers Seahawks game last year and the much maligned call at the end. If that logic stands then all the receiver has to do is get his hands on the ball and it is a catch even if the defender has it wrapped up.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,383
    Likes Received:
    15,808
    Here's a longer explanation:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-controversy-that-ended-monday-night-football

    A Closer Look at the NFL Rulebook

    Despite what many have said about the play in question, pass interference is the only penalty that could have been called—not defensive holding and not illegal contact.

    In the NFL rulebook, the description of what is and is not defensive holding is pretty straight-forward. It is, literally, any time a defensive player holds onto an offensive player. Illegal contact is much the same—any time a defensive player pushes an offensive one down the field. Frankly, it's one of the few parts of the NFL rulebook that makes perfect sense.

    That is, right until one gets to the part on exceptions:

    [​IMG]

    See, holding and illegal contact are both for before the pass is thrown. Often, you'll even hear referees say, "Before the pass..." as they call a holding penalty. That's why. Because the contact occurred as the ball was in the air, it cannot be holding and it cannot be illegal contact.

    OK, so pass interference it has to be. So was it?


    (then it goes into whether it was pass interference.) Holding a pre-throw penalty. PI is a post-throw penalty.
     
  8. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    [​IMG]



    That's still debatable, it could've easily been a routine play, given the circumstances of the rules on the books. [/QUOTE]



    [​IMG]
     
  9. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    22,954
    Likes Received:
    12,953
    Drew Brees breaks both legs :0

    Huh?
     
  10. khanhdum

    khanhdum Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,397
    Likes Received:
    2,411
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/9rsYDljalAw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  11. SkyrimOwnsAll

    SkyrimOwnsAll Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    42

    look at the lengths ESPN is going to try and discredit Cam's win... smh, they keep beating a dead horse over 1 call... but if the roles were reversed and the panthers got "jobbed" ESPN would be talking about Cam's pick in the endzone and questioning if he would ever live up the number 1 pick status
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now