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If the NBA gets its way, this season was pointless.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ZRB, Apr 1, 2001.

  1. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    If the NBA allows Zone defenses next year, it would seem that this was a complete waste of a season. Obviously they won't make the playoffs, so they have no chance of a title (slim as that chance would have been). So, the only other thing good about this season was developing chemistry. What if the NBA allows zone defenses next year? Wouldn't that basically cancel out the Rockets' offensive system? If that is the case, then it will be yet another lottery season of trying to develop chemistry on the offensive end.
    Since the Rockets have blown the playoffs, this season was a complete and total waste. Unless of course, they keep the illegal defense rules.

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    Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.

    [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited April 01, 2001).]
     
  2. Band Geek Mobster

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    If zones were made legal ALOT of teams would have to change their offensive system. I think you're overreacting a little bit by saying this season was a complete waste. Was last season a complete waste too? Isn't every season a waste when you don't win the championship?

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  3. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    ZRB overreact??? NOOOOO!!! Say it isn't so! [​IMG]

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  4. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    Seriously Jeff, think about it. If the Rockets have to completely change their offense, what will be the point of this season?
    Last season they were developing offensive chemistry, this year too. It would not be a waste if the rules were kept the same. If they are changed, then the Rockets will be the most affected team.

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    Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.

    [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited April 01, 2001).]
     
  5. Band Geek Mobster

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    I think teams like the Jazz would be most affected by rule changes. If you've been running the same thing for 10 plus years it would be kind of hard to change it.

    You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

    The older teams that have been together longer would be most affected by rule changes.

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  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    What is an overreation is the media demanding zone, and the media using the Rockets as an example of what it will stop.

    The zone will not stop the Rockets system anymore than it stopped Oklahoma, Arkansas and UNLV each being the #1 team in the nation and each of them making to the finals. A guard oriented, one forward system can pull zones out of their box. At that is what the Rockets will do. Is that really what the media wants.

    Unfortunately, even more teams will run the Arkansas game out of necessity. The NBA will become a long-range shooting league, because that is the simplest way to beat a zone. The most difficult way to beat a zone is using Knights Motion Offense that he taught Coach K to run.

    Why the media like Fran Blinebury believes zones will force teams to play more complicated offenses is beyond me. I just don't get it. The league will play Arkansas ball more than Indiana (Texas Tech!) ball.
     
  7. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    Could we end up seeing teams averaging in the 70s?

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    Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.
     
  8. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    I'm not a basketball genius like many in the BBS are but from what I see of college ball it seems like teams that are good long range shooters seem to handle zone defenses well along with teams that run and don't wait for the zone to develop. I think with all of the three point shooters of the Rockets and young wide players who like to create on the run, ala Francis and Mobley, that the Rockets should be able to handle the zone. On the other side zone D could help the Rockets stiffen their interior D especially if Hakeem leaves.

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  9. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Zones might be conducive to socring... Assuming you have a PG who can find the open man... Do that, and you expose a zone defense...


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  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Not with a 24 second shot clock. My guess is that scoring would stay about the same average. More shots taken but a lower percentage is likely.

    They are proposing the zone to force teams into the transition game more often - the most obvious way to avoid a zone defense.

    I don't personally think it will work, but they are hell bent on doing something. The Rockets are actually in better position to deal with a zone than most teams because they have mobile guards and multiple ball handlers. Teams with set offenses (like the Jazz) or mainly a low post game will struggle.

    Bottom line: the good teams will still be good and the bad teams will still be bad. They will all adjust.

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  11. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    a PG beats a zone....really? And Steve Alford and Bobby Hurley were great NBA PGs. It is the system or the PG?

    All things remaining equal, I'll take Reggie Miller over Isiah Thomas versus a zone. Penetrating a zone is more difficult than shooting over it. So, who do you want, a classic penetrating PG like Isiah dribbling into a box, or Reggie Miller flattening the box.
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    on second thought about PG's beating zones? Pivot men beat zones even more than Reggie Miller...I was just using Reggie as an example of the simplest way to beat a zone.

    If you really want to compare things...Bill Walton beat the zone the best by standing right in the zone (at the high post) and letting guards run around him and passing over the top of the zone.

    Bobby Knight never had a Bill Walton, but everyone one of his centers were taught to have the offense run through them at the pivot. No one person runs the offense at Indiana...all 5 players run the offense.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    I think the zone will simply change the balance between athletism vs. shooting. In the last several years, the number of athletes in the NBA has increased, while the number of players with solid shooting skills and fundamentals has dropped.

    A zone defense places a bigger premium on the ability to make good passes, shoot the ball, etc as opposed to pure athletism (since one player can be countered much more easily).

    Initially, I think it will hurt scoring because there aren't enough good fundamental players out there. Over several years -- if the zone lasts that long -- I think you'd see better results, but I don't know if they'll surpass what we've got now.



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  14. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    If the league allows zone defense next year, I say the Rockets should make a concerted effort to resign Matt Bullard (isn't his contract up?). We would need tall shooters like him to draw the zone out.

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    "Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a competent historian."
    Lee Simonson
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    shanna, you are looking at it from the offensive perspective only.

    From a defensive perspective, the athletes will rock in a zone. I do not agree with the media saying zones will allow the non-athletic, non-defensive Bullard's to have a more prominent role in the NBA, like Bullard had a huge role at the college level., lol. With illegal zones, you can pull a great, athletic center out of the game. With zones, the only thing you can do to avoid him is shoot over him.

    To further combat this notion of a new era of fundamentals, the freaks of nature like Shawn Bradley and Manute Bol will now be controlling the game. All the fancy passing in the world and overly-hyped fundamental offense is going to get swatted back in your face by a 7'6" freak, unless you shoot over it.

    I tell you what. Anyone who really wants zones, should be seriously thinking about trading for Shawn Bradley! Because his value will increase dramatically. So I ask again...is that what you want?

    That is why zones will demand more defensive athleticism over offensive fundamentals thus making the NBA even more athletic, because the NBA will be dominated by freaks of nature who rule the paint and can't be beat. There will be like 2 to 4 of those guys per decade who coaches will seek out to surround them with an athletic match-up zone like Chaney's Temple squads, and will suffocate anything you throw at them. Imagine if Chaney had Shawn Bradley or Mutombo. Temple wins a title by shutting you down to 50 points.

    Defenses will rule by athleticism, just like Temple is the best defense in the nation, year in and year out, with no shooters, yet always pulls upsets. Athleticism on offense or defense, relatively speaking, beats fundamentals like it should, and like it does in all sports (except darts). Sports are athleticism, and athletes can have fundamentals too anyhow....fundamentals are overly-hyped versus repetitions. Repetitions and learning to use your skills is fundamental. In fact, the more I think about it, that IS fundamentals...practice. Fundamentals as the media likes to think they are is stuff about knowing how to play in a motion offense or something. Well that is all fine, but that doesn't make it a better offense than Nolen Richardson at Arkansas. And it doesn't say anything about it being able to beat Temple's athletic match-up zone which will dominate the NBA, imo.

    Zones will turn the NBA into a defense-oriented league, and your sharpshooters will be taking on the Temple match-up zones. One thing for sure, the Steve Alfords and Bobby Hurley who can't play defense will still never amount to much in the NBA, fundamentals or not!

    [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2001).]
     
  16. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Heyp-Did I ever say that PG's will slash through a zone? No...

    I did say that PG's can FIND THE OPEN MAN... You can do this without penetrating...

    Such as, let's imagine Mooch is dribbling at the top of the key facing a 2-3 zone...

    Since there are only 2 defenders up top, let's say the Rockets have 2 other shooters next to moochie... This means someone is open at the top of the key... And Moochie will then recognize who is open, and proceed to passing to the open man...

    Zones create openings, it's just a matter of players finding the opening and then making their shots when they do get the ball...

    Moreover, zones will leave defenses very susceptible to offensive rebounds...

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  17. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    Might be time to trade for Trajan Langdon. He could be a star like he was in college if the zone is brought in. Ditto for the Glen Rices, Hubert Davises, and Wesley Persons of the league. Eddie Johnson might think of coming out of retirement.

    On the plus side, I think Mo Taylor could thrive against a zone defense. His ability to shoot the 15 to 20 foot shot is ideally suited to picking apart a 2-3.

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  18. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    I don't mind a zone... I think the idea of claiming that a defense is "illegal" is kind of gay...

    Watching ISO and man-to-man got to repetitive...

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  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    The PGs can find the open man without penetrating, all by their lonesome because a 2-3 zone leaves a spot open on the floor for Mo' to plant himself?? I really, really do not understand that. Are you saying the PG position will dominate the NBA if zones are legal. Zones will nullify a PG as much as any other position if that is what you intend to build your offense around. There are no open men against zones, like the way you are describing. When people saying "exposing" a zone, they are talking about the creases that you can attack, not some type of unguarded area to set up in.

    So without knowing it, you were indeed talking about a "PG slashing through a zone." The tall pivot man is much better at finding the so-called "open man" against a zone. Really what happens when you take on a zone with motion is you confuse it with picks, pass and move. At any moment anyone could be open, and anyone could be passing to him.

    5 men beat zones in motion, not a PG. If any one man beats a zone, it is Reggie Miller and Bill Walton....not Isiah Thomas or Steve Francis, which is exactly what Isiah and Knight kept arguing about, and whether Isiah could and should abandon motion and just drive, which is a large reason why Isiah left after 2 years.

    And you comment about a 2-3 zones versus Moochie at the top is somewhat too simplistic for my taste. 2-3 is simply a name. It does not mean it is illegal for a third guy to come out top. Plus, why in the hell would anyone run a 2-3 zone against us anyhow. They would run a match-up 3-2 zone.

    Also, please explain why zones leave defenses susceptible to offensive rebounds...I've never heard that one.

    [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2001).]
     
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Let me say one more thing tonight, then I'll shut up for now (although I really...really...love talking this stuff...this is my Hangout equivalent...I love talking with you guys about bball systems).

    If zones are implemented, Francis gets squashed as much if not more than Mobley. Mobley's ISO getting tossed, does not mean Mobley is useless against zones. Mobley is a better penetrator than Francis and will be instructed to still attack the seams, and his pick n roll will remain bread n butter if not more so than it already is.

    All we are so homey to really believe Francis is a great passing PG. The guy is a very marginal passer for a PG. Really man, Kenny Thomas and Moochie are the two best, instinctualy passers on the team. Francis, as much as I want to believe he is Isiah with hops....isn't and never should be described that way. He is better described as Sam Cassell with hops, and that ain't bad!!! I love Sam! Francis has to look too hard for passes. It is not reflex ... i'm sorry.

    Francis is a mess against zones....we DO NOT want Francis to face NBA zones....believe that!

    Main thing is: Dallas will rock...we will never beat them. And is not because they have more fundamentals on their team, or because Steve Nash is a far superior college-type PG against zones versus Steve Francis, it is because they have a 7'6" freak of nature who we will have no recourse but to shoot over.

    zones are bad news because Dallas will rock, not because we can't keep playing ISO.

    [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2001).]
     

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