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Kluwe "I was fired by two cowards and a bigot"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I was going to post this in the football forum but it probably belongs here.

    Former NFL punter Chris Kluwe who is an outspoken advocate for Gay marriage and was cut by the Vikings last season. Has accused current Vikings' special teams coach Mike Preifer of making hateful remarks against homosexuals and recently fired coach Leslie Frazier and general manager Rick Spielman of telling him to back off the issue while owner Ziggy Wylf had expressed support. He says this issue was a factor in his getting cut by the team. He makes his case in a Deadspin article.
    http://deadspin.com/i-was-an-nfl-player-until-i-was-fired-by-two-cowards-an-1493208214

    [rquoter]Hello. My name is Chris Kluwe, and for eight years I was the punter for the Minnesota Vikings. In May 2013, the Vikings released me from the team. At the time, quite a few people asked me if I thought it was because of my recent activism for same-sex marriage rights, and I was very careful in how I answered the question. My answer, verbatim, was always, "I honestly don't know, because I'm not in those meetings with the coaches and administrative people."

    This is a true answer. I honestly don't know if my activism was the reason I got fired.

    However, I'm pretty confident it was.
    ...
    On Sept. 8, the head coach of the Vikings, Leslie Frazier, called me into his office after our morning special-teams meeting. I anticipated it would be about the letter (punters aren't generally called into the principal's office). Once inside, Coach Frazier immediately told me that I "needed to be quiet, and stop speaking out on this stuff" (referring to my support for same-sex marriage rights). I told Coach Frazier that I felt it was the right thing to do (what with supporting equality and all), and I also told him that one of his main coaching points to us was to be "good men" and to "do the right thing." He reiterated his fervent desire for me to cease speaking on the subject, stating that "a wise coach once told me there are two things you don't talk about in the NFL, politics and religion." I repeated my stance that this was the right thing to do, that equality is not something to be denied anyone, and that I would not promise to cease speaking out. At that point, Coach Frazier told me in a flat voice, "If that's what you feel you have to do," and the meeting ended. The atmosphere was tense as I left the room.

    On Sept. 9, before our game against the Jacksonville Jaguars, the owner of the team, Zygi Wilf, came up to me, shook my hand, and told me: "Chris, I'm proud of what you've done. Please feel free to keep speaking out. I just came from my son's best friend's wedding to his partner in New York, and it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen."

    On Sept. 10, I was once again called into Leslie Frazier's office. Coach Frazier asked me if I was going to keep speaking out on the matter of same-sex marriage and equality. I responded that I was, and I related what Zygi Wilf had said to me at the game the day before. Coach Frazier looked stunned and put his hand across his face. He then told me: "Well, he writes the checks. It looks like I've been overruled." At that point, he got his personal public relations assistant on a conference call to ask her what to do. She outlined some strategies, mainly centered around talking only with large national media groups and ignoring the smaller market stations (radio, television, print). I said that I would be sure not to say anything to denigrate the team, but that I would like to talk with anyone who was interested. Both Coach Frazier and his PR person attempted to dissuade me from this course of action, saying that the message would be more effective if presented properly. I suspected this was another attempt to keep me from speaking out. I did not agree to any course of action they suggested, and I left the meeting once it concluded.
    ...
    Throughout the months of September, October, and November, Minnesota Vikings special-teams coordinator Mike Priefer would use homophobic language in my presence. He had not done so during minicamps or fall camp that year, nor had he done so during the 2011 season. He would ask me if I had written any letters defending "the gays" recently and denounce as disgusting the idea that two men would kiss, and he would constantly belittle or demean any idea of acceptance or tolerance. I tried to laugh these off while also responding with the notion that perhaps they were human beings who deserved to be treated as human beings. Mike Priefer also said on multiple occasions that I would wind up burning in hell with the gays, and that the only truth was Jesus Christ and the Bible. He said all this in a semi-joking tone, and I responded in kind, as I felt a yelling match with my coach over human rights would greatly diminish my chances of remaining employed. I felt uncomfortable each time Mike Priefer said these things. After all, he was directly responsible for reviewing my job performance, but I hoped that after the vote concluded in Minnesota his behavior would taper off and eventually stop.

    On Oct. 25, I had a poor game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and the Vikings brought in several punters for a workout to potentially replace me. I do not believe this was motivated by my speaking out on same-sex equality, though I do not know for sure. During the special-teams meeting the following day, Mike Priefer berated me in an incredibly harsh tone the likes of which I've never heard a coach use about my abilities as a punter (and I have been berated before). The room went silent after he finished speaking, in a way that normally does not happen during meetings when someone is being called out. The Vikings kept me on as their punter.

    Near the end of November, several teammates and I were walking into a specialist meeting with Coach Priefer. We were laughing over one of the recent articles I had written supporting same-sex marriage rights, and one of my teammates made a joking remark about me leading the Pride parade. As we sat down in our chairs, Mike Priefer, in one of the meanest voices I can ever recall hearing, said: "We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows." The room grew intensely quiet, and none of the players said a word for the rest of the meeting. The atmosphere was decidedly tense. I had never had an interaction that hostile with any of my teammates on this issue—some didn't agree with me, but our conversations were always civil and respectful. Afterward, several told me that what Mike Priefer had said was "messed up."
    ...
    In November and December, I was frequently marked for negative scores by Mike Priefer on our "Production Point" sheet for punts that earlier had been marked positive, despite the numbers being almost exactly the same in terms of hangtime and distance. I do not know if these "Production Point" sheets were ever shown to our general manager or head coach, nor do I know if they were used to evaluate my job performance, though I suspect they were. I often laughed with other players about how the points seemed to be arbitrarily assigned, and we all agreed that there was no way to succeed as far as the "Production Point" charts were concerned. The vast majority of special-teams players already had negative point totals for the year.
    ...
    So there you have it. It's my belief, based on everything that happened over the course of 2012, that I was fired by Mike Priefer, a bigot who didn't agree with the cause I was working for, and two cowards, Leslie Frazier and Rick Spielman, both of whom knew I was a good punter and would remain a good punter for the foreseeable future, as my numbers over my eight-year career had shown, but who lacked the fortitude to disagree with Mike Priefer on a touchy subject matter. (Frazier was fired on Monday, at the conclusion of a 5-10-1 season.) One of the main coaching points I've heard throughout my entire life is, "How you respond to difficult situations defines your character," and I think it's a good saying. I also think it applies to more than just the players.

    If there's one thing I hope to achieve from sharing this story, it's to make sure that Mike Priefer never holds a coaching position again in the NFL, and ideally never coaches at any level. (According to the Pioneer Press, he is "the only in-house candidate with a chance" at the head-coaching job.) It's inexcusable that someone would use his status as a teacher and a role model to proselytize on behalf of his own doctrine of intolerance, and I hope he never gets another opportunity to pass his example along to anyone else. I also hope that Leslie Frazier and Rick Spielman take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are the people they truly profess themselves to be.

    Some will ask why I waited so long to tell this story. It's a fair question, and I have two answers. The first is that I still have friends on the Vikings, and opening up something like this during the season would not help them focus on their jobs. By doing it now, I hope they don't have to answer questions about an issue that concerns only four people, and I hope the issue will have died down before next season starts.

    The second is that I wanted to prove I still had the physical ability to compete in the NFL. I can still hit the ball 45 yards outside the numbers with good hangtime, and at the tryouts I've had this year I've gotten praise from the scouts and personnel people on hand, but for whatever reason I cannot find a job. (Side note: My numbers from last year would put me right in the middle of the pack for this year, and I've traditionally been in the middle to top third of punters each year).

    However, it's clear to me that no matter how much I want to prove I can play, I will no longer punt in the NFL, especially now that I've written this account. Whether it's my age, my minimum veteran salary, my habit of speaking my mind, or (most likely) a combination of all three, my time as a football player is done. Punters are always replaceable, at least in the minds of those in charge, and I realize that in advocating noisily for social change I only made it easier for them to justify not having me around. So it goes.

    Some will ask if the NFL has a problem with institutionalized homophobia. I don't think it does. I think there are homophobic people in the NFL, in all positions, but that's true for society as well, and those people eventually get replaced. All we can do is try to expose their behavior when we see it and call them to account for their actions.[/rquoter]

    More at the link.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    In response the Vikings have said Kluwe was cut for strictly football reasons and a few current Vikings players including the current punter and kicker have come out in support of Priefer.
    Here is Priefer's response.
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...r-i-vehemently-deny-chris-kluwes-allegations/

    [rquoter]Mike Priefer: I vehemently deny Chris Kluwe’s allegations
    Vikings special teams coach Mike Priefer is denying former punter Chris Kluwe’s claims that the two of them butted heads over Kluwe’s advocacy of gay marriage, and that Priefer used homophobic language around Kluwe.

    “I vehemently deny today’s allegations made by Chris Kluwe,” Priefer said in a statement, via Paul Allen of KFAN. “I want to be clear that I do not tolerate discrimination of any type and am respectful of all individuals. I personally have gay family members who I love and support just as I do any family member. The primary reason I entered coaching was to affect people in a positive way. As a coach, I have always created an accepting environment for my players, including Chris, and have looked to support them both on and off the field. The comments today have not only attacked my character and insulted my professionalism, but they have also impacted my family. While my career focus is to be a great professional football coach, my number one priority has always been to be a protective husband and father to my wife and children. I will continue to work hard for the Minnesota Vikings, the Wilf family and all of our loyal fans.”

    Kluwe, who gained widespread attention during the 2012 season for his advocacy of gay marriage and his outspoken opposition to anti-gay bigotry, wrote today that he was subjected to homophobic abuse from Priefer. Kluwe, who called Priefer a “bigot,” believes that he was cut because the team sided with Priefer over him on the matter.

    The Vikings (who still employ Priefer even though they fired his boss, head coach Leslie Frazier, this week) have vowed to investigate Kluwe’s accusations.[/rquoter]
     
    #2 rocketsjudoka, Jan 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    To add more to the drama Chris Kluwe this morning on KFAN Minnesota Sports Talk radio has further responded.
    Audio:
    http://www.kfan.com/pages/psn_powertrip.html?article=11942607

    http://www.kfan.com/pages/vikingsblog.html?article=11942649
    [rquoter]
    Kluwe Joins KFAN, Dares Vikings Coach To Sue Him

    Minneapolis, MN - One day after setting the league on fire when it comes to the fraternity that is the NFL, former Vikings punter Chris Kluwe joined KFAN and The Power Trip Morning show to address some of the follow up questions and comments made by Vikings players and coaches.

    While the platform was there for Kluwe to share his thoughts, it was former linebacker and Kluwe's former special teams teammate Ben Leber who brought the heavy and went after Kluwe's delivery of the message.

    "It was a story that I wanted to tell," Kluwe said in regards to his allegations against special teams coordinator Mike Priefer. "This is stuff that still goes on and stuff that still happens. As a society we need to address that and hopefully change it so it doesn't happen to other people."

    CLICK HERE to listen to the entire KFAN interview with former Vikings Punter Chris Kluwe...

    While Leber plainly stated that he agreed with the message that Kluwe was sharing, he also shared that he had issue with the way that it was delivered. In particular the timing of waiting until his career was over to support an issue he reportedly is in such favor of.

    "It's kind of one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations," Kluwe said in response to Leber. "I left it for a year because I didn't want to bring my teammates, my former teammates, into the mess and I wanted to prove that I could still punt in the NFL...if you badmouth a coach, you're done. You're not going to play again."

    Kluwe's allegations claim that the most damning comments, regarding nuking homosexuals, was in Kluwe's words made in a "specialists meeting." Specialists meetings are typically small gatherings between the three specialists, punter, kicker and long-snapper.

    The Vikings kicker in 2012, Blair Walsh already came out and made a public statement calling Kluwe's allegations "reprehensible" leaving long-snapper Cullen Loeffler as the lone witness that Kluwe is referencing. Still, Kluwe would not name the player(s) that were witness to Priefer's alleged comments.

    "If we get to legal proceedings that will come out," Kluwe claimed. "If Mike Priefer vehemently denies that this happened and feels that I have slandered his good name, then I strongly encourage him to bring forth a defamation suit and he can have his day in court and we'll see what happens."

    When asked flat out if he thought that he is unemployed and out of the NFL today because of his stance on gay marriage, Kluwe agreed.

    "There's this disconnect between somehow it's bad what I did," Kluwe explained. "Speaking out about same-sex rights and using aggressive language [is wrong]. Yet somehow, if you do the same thing and break the law, or drink and drive or hit your wife, that's okay? Where does that make sense? There are a couple of felons in the league."

    No matter the letter that came out yesterday, the conversations that were had today or the proceedings that will surely happen going into the future, the damage (mainly against Mike Priefer's career) has already been done. Whether it's deserved or not, Priefer will have a hard time getting another coaching job in the NFL. According to Kluwe's own words ("to make sure that Mike Priefer never holds a coaching position again in the NFL, and ideally never coaches at any level) his mission was accomplished. Today, he elaborated on that idea.

    "I'm not out to ruin his career," Kluwe said on KFAN. "I just don't think he should coach in the NFL. I don't think he's an appropriate role model for children or adults to watch. It's about treating people the right way. It's about not firing someone simply because you don't believe the same things they believe in."[/rquoter]
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Either that or he sucked. Punters (!!) are canned all the time. More so if they can't even go 60 yards. Sounds like an over the hill "activist" is looking for more attention now that his NFL career is confirmed to be over.
     
  5. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    He didn't suck he was middle of pack. Yes punters do get cut all the time, but he was was a activist during his career too. He played for 8 years if he saved his money and invested he is set for the rest of his life. Lets see what happens to Priefer.
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    By what metric was he middle of the pack?

    2012 stats:
    Punts inside the 20: 18 ranks 31st

    Long punt: 59 yards ranks 32nd
     
    #6 Bandwagoner, Jan 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Kluwe's average for distance was in the bottom half of NFL punters but part of the problem was that the Vikings' kick coverage was terrible. According to Kluwe he had been told to not kick it so deep so he wouldn't over kick the punt coverage.

    Also as Kluwe notes his numbers were pretty consistent.

    I am not completely buying Kluwe's argument and I suspect that his salary, which was high for a punter, played a larger role in his firing but I also suspect his views and how outspoken he was rubbed many in the Vikings and NFL raw.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Consistently horrible, the rookie they drafted to replace him did a better job.
     
  9. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    He was 17th in net punt avg and 22nd in total avg. If you believe what he says and he was told to kick higher instead of deeper the net punt average is probably the more appropriate stat to use. In which case he was middle of the road.

    BTW Shane Lechler was near the bottom of the league in getting the ball inside the 20. I think Shane Lechler is a pretty good kicker. However all kicker stats are really bunched close together so I think they probably cut him because of his price tag.

    However if Priefer doesn't come out and sue then there is a good chance he is a Bigot. It will be be fun to see what team hires him.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    His long has been the same since 2008, that is the furthest he can get the ball.

    If you are dead last in two stats and almost last in average, you suck. If you aren't getting many inside the 20 your avg and LNG should be higher as a result of kicking from deep in your own territory.

    That is a horrible way to measure if someone is a bigot.
     
  11. droopy421

    droopy421 Member

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    Punters and kickers are largely expendable. Wasn't he one of the higher paid punters out there? No need to smear your boss if you are canned for football reasons.
     
  12. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Sue for.......what?
     
  13. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    Regardless of why he's cut, why shouldn't he share those stories if they were true ?
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    That is partly Kluwe's point. If he was such a bad punter why did they keep him around for so long? Why did they increase his contract?

    Kluwe's argument is that the main factor that changed was his activism and not his punting in this final year.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Kluwe's argument is that he wasn't canned for football reasons.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    He got worse, but he wasn't great. Teams make bad decisions all the time, why did the Texans keep Matt Turk for so long? There is a comfort level in a punter because the job isn't hard, but when you obviously under perform for years you have to make a change.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Looking at Kluwe's stats he punted for a 45.0 average in 2012 and a 45.7 in 2011. Those were improvements from 2010 where he punted 43.0 and 43.9 in 2009. So he didn't get worst.

    Matt Turk was much worse than Kluwe and also wasn't with the Texans as long as Kluwe was with the Vikings and was even cut by the Texans once. Anyway if it is comfort level with the kicker that woudl support Kluwe's argument more that it wasn't for football reasons he was cut.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    In breaking news the Vikings are retaining two prominent lawyers to conduct an independent investigation into the situation.
     
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    You are looking at averages. Considering 2011 and 2012 marks the first two years Mike Priefer was running special teams, that change is much more of a factor.

    His inability to pin a team deep and inability to change field position with a weak leg killed him. You cannot lack both of those skills and still have a job tens of thousands of people could do.
     
  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Even if he was horrible and fired for such, if what he is alleging is true, it is reprehensible... it certainly makes sense for the Vikings to do a special investigation to find out if it was true, since the special teams coach is apparently still employed by them.

    Conversely, if he's making it all up, that's equally reprehensible.

    The reality is only a couple of people know EXACTLY why he was fired, and arguing on amessage board, or what Kluwe thinks won't get us an answer.
     

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