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Teams that don't make the playoffs

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by TheFreak, Apr 24, 2003.

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  1. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    People like to harp on the fact that the Rockets haven't made the playoffs 4 years in a row. It is actually quite rare for teams to slip out of the playoffs, then get right back in. It really doesn't work that way. In the past 4 years, out of the 13 teams that annually miss the playoffs, 9 of the 13 this year missed the playoffs all four years.

    The teams are:

    Houston
    Golden State
    Memphis
    LA Clippers
    Denver
    Washington
    Atlanta
    Chicago
    Cleveland

    This is not to point out the obvious, that teams that are bad usually stay bad for a while. What I'm looking for is similarities between these teams, and theories on why they're still in the same situation, for the most part. I don't really have anything to add right now, just looking for some good takes on this.
     
  2. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Oh God, that's a horrible list to put the Rockets in. It is the ULTIMATE destruction of any positive hopes I had.

    Those are basically all the deep lottery teams of the last few years.

    Aside from that, we got the best player in the draft twice during this span, and we also got Eddie Griffin.

    This team SHOULD NOT be in a list with those players, and this team, REGARDLESS of history, SHOULD have been in the playoffs. They had the talent, experience, and effort on most nights. Unfortunately, Rudy went out and we were sub .500 with Larry.

    History doesn't dictate the future.
     
  3. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    It's pretty sad...to be in a list with all those teams. The players think they are great and arrogant...but they lose to all those teams...besides Denver. :(

    They will make it next season.
     
  4. A-Train

    A-Train Contributing Member

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    The only team the Rockets have anything in common with is the Clippers. Both were picked to be in the playoffs by a bunch of people, and both underachieved. The Rockets have had everything go right for them. They got Steve for a bunch of crap players, they stole Mobley in the second round. They won the lottery to get Ming They supposedly got one of the best players in the 2001 draft in Griffin. They got the EXACT player they wanted in 3 of the last 4 drafts and it hasn't amounted to didley poo squat...

    "Oh, but team's that suck usually suck for a long time!"

    That has to be the weakest excuse yet. You keep trying to spin this season Freak, but it's not going to work. Just admit that the Rockets severly underachieved this year like everybody else has and move on....
     
  5. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    I started a thread about this exact same topic the day Phoenix clinched the 8th spot. My point was that the Rockets were now amongst the ranks of perennial losers like the Clippers, Wizards, Cavaliers, Grizzlies, and Warriors. That alone is reason enough for fans to realize Rudy's grace period after the 2 titles from 8 and 9 years ago is over and that it's time for Les to clean house.

    But you wanna know why all these teams have failed to qualify for the playoffs for so many years, here you go:

    Golden State Warriors - This past season marked the 9th straight year they missed the postseason. Frankly, you can direct all the blame at GM Garry St. Jean. This guy makes Carroll Dawson's recent track record look like Jerry West when he signed Shaq and traded for Kobe. He's continuously handed out long term deals to mediocre players(sound familiar?) and wasted high lottery picks on bad players(Mike Dunleavy being the latest example). That being said, Antawn Jamison has developed nicely and Gilbert Arenas and Jason Richardson make a formidable backcourt. Thanks to coach Eric Musselman, the Warriors are every bit as close as the Rockets to qualifying for the playoffs next year, provided they re-sign Arenas and learn to play defense once in a blue moon.

    Denver Nuggets - They've been out of it for 8 years now. This franchise is a mess. Their biggest problem is they've never really had a franchise player to build around. Mutombo was a dominant defensive force in the early-to-mid 90's, but his offense is so ugly, it's bugly. McDyess never became the great scorer they'd hoped for, and he was injury prone. Plus Dan Issel was literally insane. So they blew up their roster and started over. They're not gonna be playoff contenders for at least the next two seasons, but they've got a great shot at LeBron or Carmelo and a ton of cap space. The question is will they be able to sign anyone?

    Memphis Grizzlies - They've also been out of it for 8 years. Scratch that. They've never been IN the playoffs since they came into the league. This franchise was so pathetic, they moved after 6 years in Vancouver and nobody cared. Just like the Warriors, they've wasted a lot of high draft picks. Bryant Reeves was a waste of space, Shareef was good but never a franchise player, and Stevie didn't wanna play there. Mike Bibby was a solid point guard for them, but he was traded to Sacramento. However, now with Jerry West on board and a solid old school coach in Hubie Brown, things finally took a turn for the better this season. Jason Williams became an assist machine, Pau Gasol continued his terrific play from last season, they acquired Mike Miller, Stromile Swift has developed nicely, and Wesley Person led the league in 3-point accuracy. Right now, they need to keep this nucleus together(that includes Hubie) and get better on defense and before you know it, they could be competing for a playoff spot in a couple years.

    L.A. Clippers - A 6-year drought that isn't likely to end anytime soon as long as the Donald runs that organization. All the talent in the world and they can't even crack 30 wins. They may keep Odom and Brand next season, but every other free agent is probably gone. Truly a pathetic franchise.

    Washington Wizards - With Jordan retiring, they're back to being the Clippers East. I love MJ and he's the best player ever, but he's done a lousy job as GM. Drafting Kwame Brown, signing Larry Hughes to be his point guard when that experiment already failed miserably in Golden State, swapping Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse, and let's not forget how in the past, this organization practically gave away the likes of Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, and Ben Wallace. Here's another 6-year drought that won't end anytime soon, even in the pathetic Eastern Conference.

    Chicago Bulls - 5 years out of the playoffs and counting. So much for "organizations winning championships", eh Krumbs Krause? Fortunately, Krause is gone, and John Paxson's replaced him, so maybe free agents will be more likely to take their money now. They've done a decent job drafting lately, especially in the frontcourt with guys like Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, and Marcus Fizer. The big question mark is the development of Jay Williams. He did not have a good rookie campaign at all and he's the key to any hopes they have for a playoff berth next season. Well, that and learning to win on the road. Only 3 freaking road wins in 41 tries?! That's ridiculous!

    Cleveland Cavaliers - They're similar to the Nuggets and not just because both teams finished with identical records and the same number of ping pong balls in the LeBron James sweepstakes. Cleveland's never had that franchise player to build around. In fact, this team's done nothing since the days of Brad Daugherty and Mark Price. Hence the decision(like Denver) to blow up the roster and go for the prize pick in this year's draft. They've been out of it for 5 years and won't be back in for at least another 2, probably longer.

    Atlanta Hawks - Just like the Clippers and Rockets, a talented team with little chemistry which resulted in a disappointing season. Shareef, Glenn Robinson, Theo Ratliff, and Jason Terry are all good players, but they never could figure out how to play as a cohesive unit, and Lon Kruger paid the price with his job. They've been out of the postseason for 4 years and now it's back to the drawing board as they try to figure out who's willing to take all these malcontents off their hands. But first, they have to shell out 125 bucks to every season ticket holder since they failed to come through on their promise to make the playoffs.

    Houston Rockets - Last but certainly not least, we have the Rockets. So what went wrong? There were many reasons they missed the playoffs for the 4th straight year. Eddie and Moochie had terrible seasons. Mo Taylor didn't come on strong until the last two months. Their defense was non-existent after the All-Star break. Larry Smith was a horrible replacement for Rudy when he had to leave. Steve and Cat were disappointing as the so-called leaders of this team. The list goes on. The biggest problem I see with the Rockets however is their lack of direction. From the towel boy all the way to Les himself, I don't really think these guys have a clear sense of what type of team they're looking to put together. For the last 4 seasons, they've been way too content to just sign or trade for the best available player(in their estimation) at each position and lock that guy in long-term. It worked with Steve at the point(for the most part anyway). But Cat is an average starting 2-guard. Shandon Anderson was a mediocre 3 who's been replaced by a slightly better James Posey. Mo Taylor is a decent scorer, but one of the worst PFs in the West. And the best thing you can say about Kelvin Cato was that he made a solid backup center this season. Unfortunately, he's making $7 million a year! Plus their draft picks have left a lot to be desired. Boki did nothing this season, and Eddie's been a bust up to this point in his career. Yeah, I know they drafted Yao and he's gonna be great, but c'mon! Anyone other than the Lakers would've taken that guy if they had the damn 1st pick in the draft fall into their laps. The real question is how well does Yao develop as a player, and so far Rudy and his staff are doing a poor job by forcing him to do his best Shaq impersonation. Which brings me to Rudy T. All throughout the offseason last year, we heard about his "motion offense" he was planning to implement. But all we got this season once again was ISO streetball. Now that the guy's sober(allegedly), he should be well aware that this type of offense doesn't work in the era of zone defenses. So what's the direction Rudy has for this group of players? Will he force them to play a more organized and creative style of basketball? Are he and his staff even capable of coming up with such a system? Is Rudy willing to discipline players who fall out of line, both on and off the court? Does he have the ability to develop young guys like Yao, Eddie, and Boki? We'll know the answers to all of these questions by the All-Star break next season, assuming Rudy's still the coach at that point.


    So what's my point in all of this? If you look at this list of franchises, they fall into one of four categories. They're either a team like the Clippers who just don't give a damn, a team like the Wiz, Grizz, and Warriors who have done a piss poor job in drafting and signing free agents, a team like the Cavs and Nuggets who never really had a solid foundation to build on in the first place, or a team like the Hawks and Rockets who went out and acquired a bunch of talented players(well, some of them have talent) but have been unable to put it together.

    The fortunate thing for the Rockets is that they're not far away from being removed from this list. But standing pat ain't gonna cut it. You can't chalk up their many problems this season to simply youth and inexperience. They have major deficiencies that must be addressed. If not, they'll continue to be mired in their now 4-year slump in mediocrity and be ranked among the very worst franchises in the NBA.
     
  6. MManal

    MManal Member

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    How low has this organization sunk that we have to be mentioned in the same sentence as the likes of the Clippers, Cavs, Hawks, Nuggets, etc. Very sad. Changes need to be made.

    Btw, just in case anyone is curious, in that list of teams that has four straight lotteries, only the Rockets have kept the same coach through the awful stretch. I admire Les's loyalty to Rudy, but if he deems it necessary to change the coach I would have no qualms at all with it.
     
  7. chievous minniefield

    chievous minniefield Contributing Member

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    yeah, all those teams have replaced their coaches.

    and they're still missing the playoffs.

    hmm. . .
     
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Btw, just in case anyone is curious, in the list of teams that has four straight lotteries, each one of those teams has changed coaches at least twice in that time period. Some as many as 4.

    So what is this big point about some presumed easy fix by changing coaches again?
     
  9. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    Eric Musselman and Hubie Brown have made a big difference in Golden State and Memphis respectively. A coaching change won't necessarily solve all of a team's problems, but it can certainly put it on the right path to eventually doing so.
     
  10. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    Denver is also getting better....don't have much talent...but they all work hard. They are all young. And they have plenty of money to get some stars and veterans. Good looking future.

    Rockets....
     
  11. MManal

    MManal Member

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    cheivous,

    changing coaches is not necessarily a bad thing, it depends on who you get. Are you telling me the Warriors would be better off had they not gotten Mussleman, would the Grizzlies be better off with Sidney Lowe instead of Hubie Brown? Also, talent plays a role in a team's success as well, and the Rockets have plenty of it yet still remain a fixture in the lottery. Btw, Im not saying the Rockets absolutely MUST change coaches; I said I wouldnt be opposed to it if they did. What they absolutely MUST do is change personnel.
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Musselman hasn't made a difference. That team sucked last year, and was underperforming. Ask any GS fan. They are just now back to where they should have been 2 yrs ago.

    Go ask some GS fan whether they consider sub500 and 11th seed to be an improvement.

    as for Hubie Brown...pfft!

    there is no correlation between coaching changes and turnarounds anymore than there is coaching changes having zero effect or, worse, allowing another team to steal your man, while your team keeps floundering!! The vast majority of coaching changes is a scapegoat thing.
     
  13. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    This is a slam dunk.

    Hasn't it already been concluded that in all instances "it's the players"? It has nada to do with the system or the coaching...it's the players. And "players" does not mean or include "role players".

    Isn't it very simple? There were no MJs or Dreams or Shaqs or Kobes or Duncans when the Cleveland Cavaliers were picking or able to sign FA's. For whatever reason of chance it was Mark Price, Brad Dougherty, Tyrell Brandon, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas instead.

    Quality management? Irrelevant. Quality coaching? Can't turn Bobby Sura (Cavs & GSW) into MJ. Quality role players? Who cares...the Foxes, Cartwrights, Ho Grants, Kenny Smiths, Kurt Rambis's of the world...all irrelevant.

    Unless your team was smart enough or lucky enough to draft or FA sign a Magic, Bird, MJ, Dream, Shaq, Duncan or Kobe...

    your team and its fans...irrelevant. If your team doesn't have a Shaq or Kobe or Duncan or young Olajuwon or young MJ...it's all marketing hype because you realistically have no chance.
     
    #13 GATER, Apr 24, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2003
  14. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    GATER, in all fairness to TheFreak, in the SamFisher thread he said, "No, of course not" to the question "Do you really think in such black and white terms?"
     
  15. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    hp -
    I'm glad you noticed. ;)

    I thought this was your position in the SamFischer thread?
     
    #15 GATER, Apr 24, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2003
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I've found that the people who blame something specific speak in more black and white terms than those who say we just suck in multiple ways and there is no quick fix...except for trading Francis for Kidd. :D

    Which one are you?
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    God, that list is scary.

    You know, back in 99, when Charles and Hakeem were slowing down, it looked like the rox somehow managed to accomplish the mythical reloading on the fly, by picking up a franchise player (stevie) without having to slum to the lottery. Granted, there was the lousy season that followed and landed us the twin blessings from heaven, collier and langhi, but then came the 47 win season and it looked like happy days were here again.

    Then all that momentum came to a grinding halt with the abysmal 02 season (despite the addition of hotshot rookie EG), and its aftereffects, in spite of the unbelivable coup of landing Ming, revereberated into this year's disappointments. I don't know when, where, or how things went so massively wrong.

    What the hell happened?
     
  18. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Don't be fooled by that depressing list. There's an important difference between us and all those other teams.

    They have lottery picks in this year's draft.
     
  19. Uprising

    Uprising Contributing Member

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    true true.... [​IMG]


    Another difference is that the rockets have gotten 40+ wins in two of their last 3 lottery seasons.

    Man...to think we only missed the playoffs by 1 fricken game!!! ARGH!![​IMG]
     
  20. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    I will hopefully be adding my thoughts tomorrow....the Masterpiece Post is being postponed.
     

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