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Numerical evidence inconclusive for Artest

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by northeastfan, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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    There was some clamoring statistics on the Rocket's performance with and without Artest. The sample was over the last 25 games.

    1. Winning
    5-5 (.500) without Artest vs. 8-7 (.533) with Artest. There really isn't much of a difference here.

    2. Offense
    We score 0.9 more ppg with Artest but shoot 3.2% worse.

    3. Defense
    There is practically no difference in ppg; the other team shoots 0.4% worse when Artest plays in the game.

    4. Artest's FG%
    Despite some woeful games, he is 84/200 = 42% in FG% which isn't fantastic but it isn't horrible either.

    5. Artest's +/-
    His +/- is +2.4 per game which is again slightly positive.

    Overall, the Rockets appear to be about the same whether Artest plays or not. I claim that TMac's play is really the confounding factor.

    For reference, compare this with TMac who has definitely hurt the Rockets with his recent play:
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=162444



    Without Artest
    <TABLE><TR><TD><B>Date</B></TD><TD><B>Opponent</B></TD><TD><B>Points For</B></TD><TD><B>Points Against</B></TD><TD><B>Win</B></TD><TD><B>Game</B></TD><TD><B>FG%</B></TD><TD><B>Opp FG%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/26/2008</TD><TD>New Orleans</TD><TD>79</TD><TD>88</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>36.1</TD><TD>44.6</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/3/2009</TD><TD>Atlanta</TD><TD>100</TD><TD>103</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>48.1</TD><TD>58.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/6/2009</TD><TD>Philadelphia</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>104</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>42.5</TD><TD>56.2</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/9/2009</TD><TD>Oklahoma City</TD><TD>98</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>45.9</TD><TD>48.1</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/10/2009</TD><TD>New York</TD><TD>96</TD><TD>76</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>42.4</TD><TD>35.4</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/13/2009</TD><TD>Lakers</TD><TD>100</TD><TD>105</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>53</TD><TD>50.6</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/17/2009</TD><TD>Miami</TD><TD>93</TD><TD>86</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>56.5</TD><TD>40</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/19/2009</TD><TD>Denver</TD><TD>115</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>51.1</TD><TD>54.5</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/21/2009</TD><TD>Utah</TD><TD>108</TD><TD>99</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>46.1</TD><TD>43.5</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/23/2009</TD><TD>Indiana</TD><TD>107</TD><TD>102</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>43</TD><TD>39.3</TD></TR><TR><TD><B>Cumulative</B></TD><TD><B></B></TD><TD><B>99.2</B></TD><TD><B>97.2</B></TD><TD><B>5</B></TD><TD><B>10</B></TD><TD><B>46.5</B></TD><TD><B>47.1</B></TD></TR></TABLE>

    With Artest
    <TABLE><TR><TD><B>Date</B></TD><TD><B>Opponent</B></TD><TD><B>Points For</B></TD><TD><B>Points Against</B></TD><TD><B>Win</B></TD><TD><B>Game</B></TD><TD><B>FG%</B></TD><TD><B>Opp FG%</B></TD><TD><B>Artest FGM</B></TD><TD><B>Artest FGA</B></TD><TD><B>Artest</B></TD></TR><TR><TD>12/23/2008</TD><TD>Cleveland</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>99</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>43.1</TD><TD>48.7</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>-14</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/27/2008</TD><TD>Utah</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>115</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>39.2</TD><TD>49</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>2</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/29/2008</TD><TD>Washington</TD><TD>87</TD><TD>89</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>40</TD><TD>46.2</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>-4</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/2008</TD><TD>Milwaukee</TD><TD>85</TD><TD>81</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>41.1</TD><TD>45.1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>10</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/2/2009</TD><TD>Toronto</TD><TD>73</TD><TD>94</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>34.1</TD><TD>48.2</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>-11</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/7/2009</TD><TD>Boston</TD><TD>89</TD><TD>85</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>48.6</TD><TD>42.9</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>12</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/25/2009</TD><TD>Detroit</TD><TD>108</TD><TD>105</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>52.7</TD><TD>56.4</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>3</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/26/2009</TD><TD>New York</TD><TD>98</TD><TD>104</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>38.9</TD><TD>47.4</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>-5</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/28/2009</TD><TD>Philadelphia</TD><TD>93</TD><TD>95</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>41.1</TD><TD>45.7</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>-8</TD></TR><TR><TD>1/31/2009</TD><TD>Golden State</TD><TD>110</TD><TD>93</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>47.6</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>3</TD></TR><TR><TD>2/3/2009</TD><TD>Chicago</TD><TD>107</TD><TD>100</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>44</TD><TD>42.4</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>2</TD></TR><TR><TD>2/4/2009</TD><TD>Memphis</TD><TD>93</TD><TD>104</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>39.8</TD><TD>53.3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>-2</TD></TR><TR><TD>2/7/2009</TD><TD>Minnesota</TD><TD>107</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>49.4</TD><TD>39.8</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>27</TD></TR><TR><TD>2/9/2009</TD><TD>Milwaukee</TD><TD>112</TD><TD>124</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>42.5</TD><TD>52.8</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>-3</TD></TR><TR><TD>2/11/2009</TD><TD>Sacramento</TD><TD>94</TD><TD>82</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>47.1</TD><TD>44.7</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>7</TD></TR><TR><TD><B>Cumulative</B></TD><TD><B></B></TD><TD><B>98.3</B></TD><TD><B>97.2</B></TD><TD><B>8</B></TD><TD><B>15</B></TD><TD><B>43.3</B></TD><TD><B>46.9</B></TD><TD><B>84</B></TD><TD><B>200</B></TD><TD><B>2.4</B></TD></TR></TABLE>
     
  2. Mac#5

    Mac#5 Member

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    i thought he was shooting below 40% :confused:
     
  3. booshan

    booshan Contributing Member

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  4. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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  5. redao

    redao Member

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    The stats are for the last 25 games.
     
  6. booshan

    booshan Contributing Member

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    I stand corrected. Long day...
    :)
     
  7. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    I'm lazy. What do the stats look like with Ron but without McGrady vs. with Ron and McGrady.
     
  8. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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    We really don't have enough games for that to be meaningful. For what it is worth, in my sample Artest has only played 4 games without TMac (the Rockets are 4-0) and TMac has only played 3 games without Artest (the Rockets are 1-2).
     
  9. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    So if our offense is shooting worse, but scoring more...then we are getting to the line more often when he plays. Drawing fouls, getting the other players in foul trouble, getting free points...thats very important come playoff time.
     
  10. redao

    redao Member

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    conclusion:

    Artest+Yao can not overcome TMAC's horrible play.
     
  11. leonking

    leonking Rookie

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    I don't mind to post it again:

    Arest's game WITHOUT Tmac since Dec:

    W Clippers 5-15 3-6
    W Warriors 9-21 4-9
    W Hawks 5-10 2-4
    W Jazz 7-18 3-6
    W Celtics 7-13 2-4
    W Warriors 10-17 4-6

    45.7% FG, 51.4% 3PTs Rockets won all.
     
  12. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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    Thanks, leonking. That's pretty impressive.
     
  13. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    Why don't you tell me the Rockets record when artest starts.
     
  14. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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    I don't have that data handy. I only have the data when he plays. Anyone know?
     
  15. worzel gummidge

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  16. Rox-Champion

    Rox-Champion Member

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    haha:D
     
  17. code_red

    code_red Member

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    Yeah, I mentioned this already. Artest works well with Yao. For whatever reason, he doesn't click with TMac.
     
  18. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    The Rockets started the season 10-5 with Tracy,Ron, and Yao starting. They scored 94ppg on 43% fg and gave up 90ppg on 43% shooting. I don't know where you got your numbers from.
     
  19. northeastfan

    northeastfan Member

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    My sample of the last 25 games. They're evident in the original post.
     
  20. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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