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CNBC Editor blames Obama's Stimulus for recent stock woes

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by stanleykurtz, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    At the risk of redundancy I'll ask it again: Is he? Is President Obama effin' CRAZY?

    President Obama blames the continuing global financial crisis for the unmitigated carnage on Monday, when the Dow fell below 7000 and closed down 300 points (or 4.2 percent) at a 12-year low of 6763.

    Bullspit! The man is in denial. By now we know the economy is ailing. The main thing that has changed: The disturbing details of Obama’s tax-and-spend plans are becoming all too clear.

    Most of the moves he has made in his first 43 days in office have been bad for the markets, damaging to investors, ill-advised for the economy and detrimental to repairing the financial collapse wracking the entire planet.

    Yesterday Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told a House committee the new budget’s “single most overriding priority” is to “stimulate private investment.” Yet Bam proposes to more than double the tax rate on hedge funds and private equity funds, engines of private-sector growth. Can’t be good for firms like Blackstone [BX 6.13 0.44 (+7.73%) ]
    He wants to rescue housing—but aims to cut back on the tax deduction for interest paid on mortgages, targeting anyone who earns over $208,000. Aren’t these the people who could most afford to buy a new home? That hurts homebuilders like Toll Brothers [TOL 14.89 0.50 (+3.47%) ].

    Bam also wants to rebuild America’s industrial might. Yet his cap-and-trade program would slap billions of dollars in new taxes on manufacturers for the emissions that are a byproduct of making goods. That could hurt General Motors [GM 2.20 0.21 (+10.55%) ] and Caterpillar [CAT 25.439 2.969 (+13.21%) ] and United Technologies [UTX 39.16 0.61 (+1.58%) ] and other behemoths.

    Worst of all, the President has kept Wall Street in the dark, pretty much, on how to fix the big banks’ toxic assets. On Tuesday President Obama's minions floated yet another painfully tentative trial balloon—a full four months after we elected this guy.

    Uncertainty kills on Wall Street, and yet once again the Bama posse is infuriatingly vague on details. The latest plan would set up several public-private funds to bid on toxic assets with the help of government loans. But we don't know how many funds, who would run them, what the price tag might be and how government and the private guys would split up the risks and rewards.

    Nor is it clear how this multi-headed hydra would heal the primary affliction infecting mortgage-backed securities: No one knows the right price for these damaged goods. That’s because we don’t know how much they have been marked down already, how bad the defaults will get, or what the government rules will be for working out this mess.

    One hope: that the Obama boys would use the TALF (Term Asset-backed Lending Facility) to grant government loans to the brave souls who buy toxic mortgage assets. So far TALF aims mainly at loans for cars, college students and credit cards; using it for shredded mortgage assets is merely "under consideration," Treasury said yesterday.


    Get on with it for gawdsakes! The toxic trauma is fixable, and this column has talked twice before about the “Rob plan." It would gather the banks’ sickest securities and swap them for new ETFs that pay a 4 percent tax-free dividend to the banks, which later could sell the ETFs into the open market.

    A critical aspect of this approach: a government guarantee of the underlying assets. Jack Mounteer, president of a Compass Bank branch in Daytona Beach in the bubble state of Florida, says a guarantee would be “the easiest way out of this mess.”

    He adds: "Why would the government lend or give money away to homeowners, private industry, or the banks when it could easily motivate a myriad of private investors to loan the same money simply by guaranteeing a portion of that debt?”

    Private investors would be eager to buy guaranteed assets. They line up to buy U.S. Treasurys and settle for near zero percent interest because they seek the safety of a government guarantee.

    In the mortgage meltdown, the guarantee approach would be a cheaper option than government’s buying all those bad assets outright, Mounteer says. The feds would spend nothing until a default actually occurs. “The taxpayer is left with a much smaller bill,” he notes.

    Instead, he laments, “I've been watching in disgust as our people in Washington let the economy slide into the dumper, clueless.” Amen. One last thing: Jack Mounteer no longer at Compass Bank—he is one of 1,200 people who just got laid off by the parent company.

    We need a fix, and fast. But so far, President Obama is making things all the worse.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/29510052
     
  2. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    LOL.

    I was listening to Bloomberg radio in December, and they were blaming the entire downturn in the economy which started in November on him then as well, I assume under the belief that his simple existence confounds business leaders to want to commit suicide or some other equally well thought out logic.

    The economy is tanking because lenders made poor and fraudulent loans, and investment bankers compounded it by creating psychotically deranged ponzi scheme derivative instruments.

    I repeat, the economy is tanking because lenders made poor and fraudulent loans, and investment bankers compounded it by creating psychotically deranged ponzi scheme derivative instruments.

    Ever heard the phrase, any port in a storm? Free-marketer criminals attempting to blame Obama for their own crimes is the ultimate scapegoating. If you are suckered by it, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell.

    Seriously, I'm sure you really wish you could blame Obama with a clear concience, but one thing we've learned from the past 8 years is that you will have much more success if you respond to the world <i>as it is</i>, instead of as you would like it to be.
     
  3. kpsta

    kpsta Contributing Member

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    Too late. :rolleyes:
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The funniest thing about that crap is that, if you click through to the link, the stock market ticker symbols and prices all update in real time with price and movement - therefore they all have green arrows next to them after today. I guess the market changed it's mind.


    Well their stock price just went up 8% in a day, so I guess he's wrong.

    F-king idiocy.
     
  5. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    From your comments, I am not sure if you read the article.

    The is the umpteenth Wall Street reporter saying that the market does not like the Stimulus plan. Nobody is saying that all the market woes are Obama's fault. They are saying that Obama inherited a horrible mess, but he is making it worse.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    Dennis Kneale has been saying for months that the market is on it's way up and "now is the time to buy" - at least going back to last summer.

    The market reacts to short-term nonsense - I don't think Obama's goal or interest is in making sure the markets go up next month. His goal is getting things right for the long-haul. The markets *loved* Bush's non-interference, low-cap-gains tax policies, and look at where they got us: the worst market and economic crash in 80 years, and the near total collapse of the western financial system. So let's be clear: the market isn't and shouldn't be a driving force behind policy-making. The market throwing more fits is as completely and totally irrelevant as the market cheerleading Bush was.
     
  7. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    And probably drives up Obama's approval ratings.
     
  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    What does it tell you when the business channel is openly mocked by Obama's team? All this does is encourage the business people on the show to voice their true opinion on Obama's financial expertise -- or lack thereof.

    Making business your enemy isn't a great strategy to get out of this recession, libs.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Certainly using the same strategy that got us into this mess is worth mocking TJ isn't it?

    The markets has tumbled because the economy was revealed to be in far bleaker shape that was actually thought. Higher unemployement numbers, a larger drop in GDP then expected, and continued troubles with institutions in finance (AIG) and Auto.

    But it's easier to point the finger at the new guy.
     
  10. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Don't mind TJ. He suffers from Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS), which means his irrational hatred of Obama is greater than the love of his country.
     
  11. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    Oh my! The markets would still love a low capital gains tax, because it encourages investment and increases overall tax revenue.

    The markets, even more, would love less government interference. Remember, if was government interference that got us into the sub-prime mess in the first place.
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Some statements are just so out there that they immediately stop the conversation.
     
  13. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    The disconnect between reality and what 51% of the country believe is astounding.

    If lenders were not forced to make low income loans and ease credit by the Clinton administration, none of this would have ever snowballed.

    I was in the mortgage business throughout the 90s, and we were originating mortgages through a completely color blind credit score driven system.

    Minorities in this system were disproportionately denied mortgages due to low credit scores. Also, minorities that were approved, on average, paid higher rates and fees than their white counterparts.

    This led the Federal government to intervene and MANDATE that lenders ease credit restrictions and debt to income ratios so minorities could attain homeownership.

    I was there in the trenches- were you?

    If you say the sub-prime mess occurred because of DEregulation, you are laughably disinformed (and I mean that with all due respect, since the news business is now completely politicized ).
     
  14. wakkoman

    wakkoman Contributing Member

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    Thread title is terribly misleading.

    I don't see anywhere in that article where Kneale really pegs Obama's stimulus bill for the markets fall recently. I see him arguing about Obama's economic policies and he does bring up his tax policies a lot on air.

    I think Kneale is one of the biggest douches on CNBC, but be fair to the man.
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Actually, it was less and less regulation of financial institutions that did it. Notice that Canada - which consistently maintained strict regulatory standards - is the only major industrialized country with no banking issues. Meanwhile, Europe had the same deregulation as the US and are having the same issues - Europe had no CRA or anything of the sort.

    You should stop reading right-wing sites to get your information.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Even though we knew it was coming, seeing the wingnuts trying to pin the economic downtown on Obama, despite the fact it started under the Bush admin and has Republican fingerprints all over it, is just mind numbingly stupid.
     
  17. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    I am sorry, I guess you missed my last post. I lived through the changes in the residential and commercial mortgage business. I don't need websites to share my personal story.

    The markets kept the mortgage business stable, because banks were responsible for their bad loans- just like in Canada.

    Please make an argument, but these personal attacks are tiresome.
     
  18. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    LOL, you didn't read the article either. If this a forum for discussion or just a BBS for knee jerk bashing?
     
  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Do I have to read the article in order to comment on what other posters are saying?

    Didn't think so.

    You're the knee jerker here, buddy.
     
  20. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    I read the article before I posted and I absolutely stand by what I said. Obviously, blaming him for everything is so silly that it can't be done with a straight face by even the true believers anymore. Instead they blame him for as much as they think they can pawn off on him (which is more than they actually <i>can</i> pawn off on him since they are, of course, living in Wingnuttia), and hammer on it out of proportion to the weight that they themselves have assigned to it in order to distract from their own culpability.

    This is all pretty standard stuff. They are still doing exactly what they've been doing since Obama was elected. The amusing thing is that you actually think that there is some sort of change in the manufactured complaints of the last 5 months.
     

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