Why Restricting Guns & Magazines in NOT the Answer

bobmarley · May 30, 2013

Space Ghost said: ↑

If he broke the law, then he broke the law. I think arresting him is a bit excessive.
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He was only doing was the Vice President said he should do though right?

bobmarley · May 30, 2013

Dem Rep. Bobby Rush Slams GOP Sen. Mark Kirk’s Plan To Curb Gang Violence As A “White Boy Solution”…

Once a Black Panther, always a Black Panther.

Via Politico:

Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) on Wednesday called Sen. Mark Kirk’s proposal to arrest Chicago gang members en masse to deal with the city’s crime problems an “upper-middle-class, elitist white boy solution to a problem he knows nothing about,” according to a report.

Rush’s comments came in a phone interview with the Chicago Sun-Times. Kirk, a Republican, had suggested the federal government spend $30 million to battle gangs and use part of that money to “crush a major urban gang” like the Gangster Disciples, the largest gang in the Chicago area.

“It’s a sensational, headline-grabbing, empty, simplistic, unworkable approach,” Rush told the paper, adding that the $30 million would be better spent on job training and creation.

“I am really very upset with Mark,” Rush said, adding that Kirk’s approach was an “upper-middle-class, elitist white boy solution to a problem he knows nothing about.”
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Space Ghost · May 30, 2013

bobmarley said: ↑

He was only doing was the Vice President said he should do though right?

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Most cities have statues that prohibit discharging a gun in city limits. And yes, I understand there are self defense laws/castle doctrine laws. Granted I don't know the law where this incident took place, I do know if I did the same exact thing in my podent town I would expect to be cited.

Svpernaut · Jul 6, 2013

I've been far too busy traveling for work to keep up with CF, but have a little time to respond now.

KingCheetah said: ↑

Svpernaut, you're so dense you can't even tell when you're being mocked...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7Va87gB_4AI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

...there are numerous ways to make homemade guns and you certainly don't need a 100K 3d printer.
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I'm dense? You're the one that think 3D printers are $100,000. The cost of 3D printers plummets every day.

I bought a 3D printer for $500. The one that Defense Distributed used to print the Liberator can be bought for about $8,000.

What makes 3D printing revolutionary is you can print thousands of identical guns from a single printer with exact measurements, where as zip guns take custom pieces, are dangerous and inexact.

3D printers can print down to the micron level of precision, that is the differentiator. 3D printed guns will be far more reliable, safe, easy to use, easy to make, and free - with the exception of printer material all from your garage or kitchen table.

Like I said, this is the beginning, in 3-5 years is when the real magic will happen with 3D printing, and if you can't see that then you are far more blind than I ever imagined.

Again, I was mocked for my early predictions that 3D printed guns were coming in the near future, and a few months later it happened. Where do you think 3D printed guns will be in a few years?

You clearly need to investigate Moore's Law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

Granville said: ↑

SvperGUNnaught likes the way his weenie tingles when he pulls the trigger. There's no talking sense to him.
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No, I like exercising the rights granted to me by the constitution. I actually don't shoot all that often anymore. I've been to the range about four times in the past two years due to my work schedule and ammo costs. But sure buddy, you've got me all figured out. I actually purchase guns as commodities and investments, rather than to go out and shoot at paper targets.

I brought this topic up because I believe that 3D printing will completely change the course of human history - for the better... and I want to make sure overzealous politicians don't try to outlaw this technology before it can do great things for mankind, because some people are going to print and produce (and eventually mass produce) printed guns.

More 3D printed guns are coming. They will be stronger, faster, better and cheaper. And because of this, politicians will try to stifle the innovation of 3D printing by any means necessary. They'll try to outlaw the trading of schematics. They'll try to outlaw, excessively tax or track the raw material sales. All of which would severely hamper the adoption rate and the evolution rate of 3D printing as a whole.

All of these battles will occur, and Americans and the world will have to decide what is more important. Evolving mankind for the better exponentially faster by openly embracing 3D printing, or slowing the rapid growth with laws and regulations on 3D printing. New York is already laughably raising the pitchforks.

magnetik · Jul 6, 2013

don't even bother.. they can't and don't get it..

bobmarley · Jul 7, 2013

Gun-Outlawed Chicago: 67 People Shot, 11 Killed Over July 4th Long Weekend…

Somehow this is still the NRA’s fault.

Via Chicago Tribune:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-violence-july-6july-7-20130706,0,34361.story

Eight people were shot — one fatally — in a drive-by shooting in which two men fired on a group of people at a home in the Lawndale neighborhood Saturday evening, authorities said.

At least one of the shooters used a rifle and casings were recovered at the scene, police said.

At least 67 people have been shot across the city since Wednesday afternoon during this long holiday weekend, 11 fatally.

In Saturday evening’s shooting, four people in serious-to-critical condition and one person in fair-to-serious condition were taken to John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County, while one person in serious-to-critical and one person in fair-to-serious condition were taken to Mt. Sinai Hospital, according to the Chicago Fire Department’s media office.

One victim, a 49-year-old man, was pronounced dead, according to the Cook County medical examiner’s office. He was identified as Terry Patterson; his home address was not available. He had been taken to Mount Sinai Hospital with a gunshot wound the groin, Chicago Police Department News Affairs Officer Joshua Purkiss said.

At Stroger were: a woman, 72, with a wound to an ankle; a woman, 41, with a wound to her right thigh; a man, 43, with gunshot wounds to the leg and back; a man, 45, shot in the penis and right thigh; and a man, 48, shot in the leg and buttocks. At Mount Sinai were: a man, 31, shot in the wrist, and a woman, 20, shot in the right leg. Police described all the victims as having had their conditions stabilized.
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DwightHoward13 · Jul 9, 2013

Illinois is last U.S. state to allow concealed carry of guns

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Illinois adopted a law on Tuesday allowing residents to carry concealed guns, becoming the last state in the nation to permit some form of possession of guns in public.

The Illinois action was a significant political victory for the gun rights lobby, the National Rifle Association, which strongly supported the new law and lobbied hard for its passage.

Illinois was the last holdout among the states in prohibiting residents from carrying guns in public.

Gun control has been a hot national issue since 20 children and six adults were killed at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, last December, prompting President Barack Obama to push Congress for tighter gun laws. However, Congress failed to enact a law supported by Obama that would have strengthened background checks for gun purchases.

In the state Obama considers home and where he served in the state Senate, the legislature voted to expand gun rights.

Democratic Governor Pat Quinn had objected to major parts of the concealed carry proposal. But both chambers of the state legislature voted on Tuesday to override his veto, allowing concealed carry to become the law.

The new law says that Illinois state police "shall issue" a permit to carry concealed guns to any applicant who passes a background check, takes 16 hours of required firearms training and meets other conditions. The bill would ban guns in some public places such as bars, schools and hospitals.

The Illinois legislature meeting in Springfield acted only after a federal appeals court last December ruled that the state prohibition on concealed carry violated the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which sets out the right to bear arms. The court gave Illinois until July 9 to enact a new law.

The issue of gun control divided the Illinois Democratic party, which holds large majorities in the legislature, along urban-rural lines. Some lawmakers from Chicago voted against concealed carry because they feared the new law would make it harder to control a wave of gun violence in the nation's third largest city. Rural lawmakers, where hunting is popular, strongly supported concealed carry.

Quinn said the bill would endanger public safety, and he made a series of proposals to change it. Lawmakers considered some small changes to the bill suggested by the governor, but overruled him anyway.

Quinn did not immediately comment after the legislature voted.
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http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-house-votes-allow-carrying-concealed-guns-182937243.html

SamFisher · Jul 9, 2013

Svpernaut said: ↑

I've been far too busy traveling for work to keep up with CF, but have a little time to respond now.
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Traveling for work? Why don't they just 3d Print a cinder block in the location where you are supposed to be? Put a bow tie on it, play an accordion, move it around, and we're all good, no?

All of these battles will occur, and Americans and the world will have to decide what is more important. Evolving mankind for the better exponentially faster by openly embracing 3D printing, or slowing the rapid growth with laws and regulations on 3D printing. N
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This scenario - as has been pointed out roughly 9 mm times - is largely irrelevant to pretty much every single gun violence victim ever and the prevention thereof - to the extent where most of us just think of you and your fellow 3Dorks as somebody for whom the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt transcends irony and absurdity into some form of Ionesco-ish performance art consisting of 8 mm footage of a farting llama filling out a name-change petition in spanish.

The funny part is - it owuld be great if this did happen - to see the gun lobby go the way of the record companies due to a wave of DIY piracy would go a long way to weakening its deadly cash-fueled campaign of violence promotion - as future dead-end nutjobs like yourself would be less likely to be created and fostered (and eventually die out, possibly due to shooting your own face off, as gun nuts liek yourself are many times more likely to do than the rest of us, statistically speaking.

Huzza, the future arrives!

Svpernaut · Aug 8, 2013

SamFisher said: ↑

Traveling for work? Why don't they just 3d Print a cinder block in the location where you are supposed to be? Put a bow tie on it, play an accordion, move it around, and we're all good, no?

This scenario - as has been pointed out roughly 9 mm times - is largely irrelevant to pretty much every single gun violence victim ever and the prevention thereof - to the extent where most of us just think of you and your fellow 3Dorks as somebody for whom the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt transcends irony and absurdity into some form of Ionesco-ish performance art consisting of 8 mm footage of a farting llama filling out a name-change petition in spanish.

The funny part is - it owuld be great if this did happen - to see the gun lobby go the way of the record companies due to a wave of DIY piracy would go a long way to weakening its deadly cash-fueled campaign of violence promotion - as future dead-end nutjobs like yourself would be less likely to be created and fostered (and eventually die out, possibly due to shooting your own face off, as gun nuts liek yourself are many times more likely to do than the rest of us, statistically speaking.

Huzza, the future arrives!
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Yup, I'm a nutjob... who doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh wait, I've been proven right again just a few months later.

http://mashable.com/2013/08/06/update-3d-printed-rifle/

<iframe src="http://embed.newsinc.com/Single/iframe.html?WID=1&VID=24951282&freewheel=69016&sitesection=breitbart_nws_pol_sty_vmppap&width=540&height=405" height="405" width="540" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dKsJe11itb4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Incoming calls for 3D printing bans from ignorant politicians in 3... 2... 1...

SamFisher · Aug 8, 2013

Svpernaut said: ↑

Yup, I'm a nutjob... who doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh wait, I've been proven right again just a few months later.
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Since you've been proven right, and the 3D printing firearm moment hath arrived - you won't care too much if we pass new firearms legislation right? It doesn't really matter as you ahve told us - and the FUTURE is here. So f-k colt, winchester, etc - they are all doomed zombie corporations. Hope you're shorting their stock brah-daddy.

Ashes · Aug 8, 2013

All this thread has done is make me want a 3D printer to make cool stuff.

Ashes · Aug 8, 2013

I mean, no one else here thinks it's pretty damn cool people have made a working firearm out of plastic? Just from a technological standpoint, that's awesome.

Svpernaut · Aug 8, 2013

SamFisher said: ↑

Since you've been proven right, and the 3D printing firearm moment hath arrived - you won't care too much if we pass new firearms legislation right? It doesn't really matter as you ahve told us - and the FUTURE is here. So f-k colt, winchester, etc - they are all doomed zombie corporations. Hope you're shorting their stock brah-daddy.
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Sure, we might as well give up free speech too because we have the internet.

Ashes said: ↑

I mean, no one else here thinks it's pretty damn cool people have made a working firearm out of plastic? Just from a technological standpoint, that's awesome.
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Exactly. My 3D printer is a few weeks away, hopefully.

Svpernaut · Nov 7, 2013

Well, the first 3D printed metal gun has arrived - a replica of a 1911. A 1911 is one of the more complex handguns they could have made. If they would have gone with a polymer type gun like most Glocks the construction would have been much easier. However, to show off the capabilities of their engineering and of the 3D printing, they made a 1911.

This is the first legitimate gun. Many more will follow. The printer used was about $500,000 but in less than a few years it will be 1/100th of that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZYKMBDm4M[/youtube]

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/07/3d-printed-gun/?ncid=fb

The Liberator, for all the hoopla, was not really a gun. This 3D-printed firearm, on the other hand, is a gun. It is a copy of a 1911 made using public-domain plans and a laser sintering system that solidifies metal powder. It fires just like a real semi-automatic pistol

The gun, created by Solid Concepts, is completely legal. The company has a Federal Firearms License and it’s trivial to find the blueprints online. The company created a 3D model of the 1911 and then simply blasted metal powder, heating it up and creating a solid, fireable item. The finished product needed a great deal of finishing including the removal of support material and modifications to the chamber. They laser sintered the nylon grips but used off-the-shelf springs and a store-bought magazine. They have used it to fire over 50 rounds so far.

“We made it to prove out metal laser sintering technology,” said VP of Marketing Scott McGowan. “We think it’s a departure from the Liberator. It’s not done with hobbyist printers. It’s not something you’re going to find in someone’s garage.”

McGowan expects to be able to help gunsmiths acquire difficult-to-build parts using this technology. They will only work with qualified customers and they are fully certified to manufacture weapons. The printers cost over $500,000 and McGowan noted that they are “professional engineers working with professional machines for professional clients.”

“We’re proving this is possible, the technology is at a place now where we can manufacture a gun with 3D Metal Printing,” wrote Kent Firestone, Vice President of Additive Manufacturing at Solid Concepts. “Now, if a qualifying customer needs a unique gun part in five days, we can deliver.”

Most important, in fact, is that this is a true first.

“As far as we know this is the world’s first 3d-printed metal gun,” said McGowan.
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glynch · Nov 7, 2013

Svpernaut said: ↑

Well, the first 3D printed metal gun has arrived - a replica of a 1911. A 1911 is one of the more complex handguns they could have made. /QUOTE]

Great every lunatic and potential homocidal maniac will be able to get their hands on a cheap semi-automatic weapon.

Can't wait for the first totally automatic weapons to arrive and be completely uncontrollable. Gut nut heaven. Hallelujah Praise you know who.
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Svpernaut · Dec 25, 2013

glynch said: ↑

Svpernaut said: ↑

Well, the first 3D printed metal gun has arrived - a replica of a 1911. A 1911 is one of the more complex handguns they could have made. /QUOTE]

Great every lunatic and potential homocidal maniac will be able to get their hands on a cheap semi-automatic weapon.

Can't wait for the first totally automatic weapons to arrive and be completely uncontrollable. Gut nut heaven. Hallelujah Praise you know who.
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The first-ever 75-round drum magazine for a 5.56 has been release.

http://forums.defcad.com/showthread.php?1021-FOSSCAD-(Israel)-AR-15-75-Round-5-56mm-Drum-Magazine

With that said, I used my 3D printer for the first time a couple of days ago. I'll be printing some gun parts and sharing in the future.

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Kim · Dec 25, 2013

Are you making Christmas ornaments? Cool, merry Christmas.

Svpernaut · Dec 26, 2013

Kim said: ↑

Are you making Christmas ornaments? Cool, merry Christmas.
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I did, Merry Christmas to you too! =D

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:211310

You can see some of the things I plan on making here -

http://www.thingiverse.com/BradGroux/likes/

Note, the ammo shells are to be used in making other items, mainly storage stuff - I know they won't fire ;-)

Newlin · Sep 25, 2018

Svpernaut said: ↑

I've brought this up several times in the gun topics (and no I'm not going to link them here), but I believe it deserves a discussion on it's own.

One huge reason I think banning or outlawing a class of firearm is silly, is because people can now make their own weapons and large capacity magazines. 3D printing and low cost personal 3-AXIS CNC machines are going to make gun laws pointless.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...acity-ammo-clips-to-thwart-proposed-gun-laws/

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q10Jz2qIog8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, I'd actually take a different route than these guys. The most important part of the magazine is the top and the follower, which feeds the rounds. I'd take a low capacity 5, 7 or 10 round magazine, cut the bottom off it it, create a sleeve to extend it and replace the spring... and bam, perfectly working high capacity magazine. However, eventually their CAD drawing will be perfect so this step won't be needed.

Now 3D printing an entire weapon is some ways off, but only a few years at most. With that said though, you can also easily use a CNC machine to mill the remaining parts at home.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JAdnZ6xsWtU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You can actually make many fully functional parts quickly in plastic for testing before milling...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rx9p9sBul70" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The 2-AXIS CNC machines seen in these videos are a few thousand dollars, in a few years 3-AXIS CNC machines will be that cost, making it even faster and easier. Not too long, and you could have a personal sized water-jet on your desktop as needed as well.

As far as 3D printing goes, it is already DIRT CHEAP to do.

Here are links to 4 different low-cost 3D printer options -

You can actually build your own decent 3D printer for about $400, and you can build a great one for about $1000. I have a buddy who bought a kit a year ago, and already has one. I've been looking at one for a few years and I've purchased a ROBO 3D from above.

http://www.3ders.org/3d-printer/how-to-build-3d-printer.html

Now I didn't purchase my 3D printer to print gun parts and magazines, but if the government is going to step in, I can assure you tens of thousands of people will.

I've actually created an entire CAD 3D drawing of my Walther P99 pistol that I could easily feed in to a 3D printer for parts or molds. I did so for a hobby purpose, and for 3D design for a game... but it can easily be migrated over to real life because my drawing is in full detail. I can import it in to Solid Works and have a fully working mock-up in a few days for about a $100 in plastic... and I am a novice, I was a CAD designer for two years, over a decade ago. Here's part of it (which I drew three years ago)...

There are already thousands of experts out there, and they are working together to complete full CAD drawings of thousands of different objects for 3D printing, including weapons.

The bottom line is, rifles and high capacity rounds are responsible for a fraction of the gun deaths in America. Stopping the war on drugs would be the cheapest, easiest and safest way to greatly reduce the murder rate... and I personally think it is sad that thousands of minorities are killed every year in the inner city by guns in drug/gang related crimes, and they don't get a second thought... and no I don't think that simply because it is in line with my pro-gun stance.

In my OPINION, the best option we have is to end the war on drugs and get people treatment. This will GREATLY reduce crime rates in the inner city. Violent crime rates in cities of 250,000 or more are 4 times higher than the rest of America.

I'd take the money saved from the war on drugs and part goes to treatment for those arrested for drug related crimes. Also, use the money to fund mental health treatment and mental health studies and education.

Banning a type of gun is only a stop-gap, and misguided when the larger problem is still going to be ignored.

Please note, I am for the decriminalization of most drugs, not legalization... two completely different things.

TL,DR - In less than a decade, anyone who wants a weapon will be able to build one for a few thousand dollars in their basement in a day or two. We MUST get to the root of WHY people do these things, not HOW they do these things.
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Is your name Cody Wilson?

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Why Restricting Guns & Magazines in NOT the Answer

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