Enough of Lin, lets talk about Harden's turnovers

I don't think hardens to's get overlooked, most of the time he will make up for them. The Lin Pass is famous now though because it's almost predictable.

 

It is hard to see those things happen, but he shouldn't have to bring the ball up as much as he does, and his stats usually more than make up for it. I cringe at it as well, but considering how much he does, and how often he has the ball, it's a necessary evil.

I worry more about his defense than I do the turnovers, but like the turnovers they look like he gets tired or lets his guard down a lot. Still, it's the defense that concerns me, which seems a matter of energy/effort. Perhaps if he didn't have to do so much, he'd have enough energy to correct these things. Who knows.

I suspect his turnovers will go down and his defense will improve when the playoffs get here. Considering injuries etc. I'm not sure we want him exerting himself any more than he is/does currently before we get there.

 

Call me when Lin averages 30 pts over his last 5 games & is top 5 in scoring in the entire NBA.


Look, Harden gives up turnovers too, but he's doing way more with those turnovers than Lin is.

Harden is essentially getting double the offensive production by giving up just 1 more turnover a game. That 5 scoring possessions to 1 additional turnover. Also, Harden averages nearly the same amount of turnovers as the best & most efficient scorer in the NBA.... Kevin Durant.

Defensively, Harden sucks when he doesn't feel like playing defense, but Lin is no lock down defender himself. Defensively the stats don't tell the whole story, but Harden actually has a higher defensive win share % than Lin.

Come to think of it... why are we even trying to compare Lin to Harden again???... geez.

 

Though Harden's TOs and his lack of defense is frustrating, unless you can replace him with another superstar that plays defense and can score and carry the team like he does on offense (Durant or Lebron), you will have to learn to live with it.

He brings enough to the table that you can get role players to cover for his deficiencies. You are not going to find many guards that can do what he does.

When he stops being a stud on offense, then we have a major problem.

It is like at work. If a guy is really good at what he does, you are willing to give him a pass for coming in late, missing days etc.

As much as Lin fans would like everyone to believe it, Lin is no where in the same league as James Harden so you cant use the same measuring stick for both.

 

This is the best analogy. Until Harden's TO's/Lack of defense cost us something REALLY big (like a play off series), folks are just going to give him a pass.

And that guy at work only gets a pass until his laziness costs you a huge contract/client...

 

Harden helps the team when we need him and yea he makes stupid turnovers but he keeps us in the game. For Lin he doesn't know what he's doing when he goes o the basket.

 

I hate when people throw salt in the wound after a loss.

 

fixed

 

Harden is currently 5th on the team in turnover % at 15.5%. He is behind Howard, Asik, Lin, and Cannan.

I find a lot of Harden's turnovers to be drives to the rim where he is fouled/stripped and not called, which is unfortunate, but not really controllable. I find very few of his turnovers are due to mental errors, more just defensive pressure.

I think in his peak, Harden can probably get this number down to 12-13%, but overall this is not a huge problem with the team right now.

BB Reference has the breakdown:
Offensive foul - 28
Bad Pass - 128
Lost Ball - 68
Other - 18

 

When it comes to turnovers, that's not the way to look at it at all. Coming to work on time, etc. probably compares more to lack luster defense, locker room problems etc.

Harden has the ability to play good defense when he wants to. You let it slide as a fan every once in awhile, but its something him and coaches are well aware of. He's going to see it, be made aware of it (coaches, FO, and Media), and he's probably going to get better after a stretch of bad defensive games. That's his main issue he needs to get better at. His turnovers are actually not a negative IMO for the volume of shots he is attributing to that end up with a positive result.

His turnovers however, id compare more to a Salesperson. If a salesperson makes a high volume of sales calls, he's probably more likely to have a higher number of "not interested's" but he's also more likely to have a higher number of sales if he has a good product, and good skill.

Such as with Harden in his profession. Just like Durant, Kobe, and Jordan in his early years, they are all play-making high volume scorers who are going to have some turnovers, but what they produce as a by-product more than outweighs the cost of those turnovers. If I'm a salesperson with good skill, I'm more than willing to accept a few more "not-interested's" and doors shut in my face, if the product of putting myself out there more gets me a higher number of sales in the end.

 

Pretty fair points all around but a few people have hit on a key that I think tells the story. It's just one statistic. Lin gets amazing amounts of grief (and praise) for every small facet of his game so cherry picking should be quite familiar around here. Bottom line, we can find one poor aspect of just about every players game and spin it to fit our argument or perception. To me the larger picture is more important.

 

Harden has the ball in his hand all the time and plays the point guard. Jeremy does not. Hardens turnovers are not that bad and his overall play is amazing and why we are 25 games over 500 in the western conference.

 

When Harden is leading the team in both points and assist, its a joke to even compare his TO to Lin's TO.

 

You can't talk about Harden's To or Defense, because LOHs would call you a LOF.

 

The thing about Harden, he has fixed a lot of his biggest issues. He is well on his way to being a super star and it is clear to see that. I have no doubt about his commitment to winning a championship and I think he really is willing to do whatever it takes.

 

LOL at NOrris Only Fan complaining about Lebron

 

I foresee this turning into another Lin thread.

 

TO per game for Lin 2.5. His hands rating by 82 is 15 very respectable. Many of his TO's are from drives not passes. Lin was known as a good passer until he came to Houston.

 

It must be the water