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Israeli-Palestinian Roadmap - Sharon Not Complying

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by F.D. Khan, May 13, 2003.

  1. F.D. Khan

    F.D. Khan Contributing Member

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    Powell takes hard line on roadmap, Sharon says settlements not an issue
    Tue May 13, 6:10 AM ET Add World - AFP to My Yahoo!



    AMMAN (AFP) - US Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) strove to reassure the Palestinians over the future of the roadmap for peace, even as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) said the thorny issue of Jewish settlements was not on his agenda.

    Powell said on the Jordanian leg of his regional tour that the United States would not "rewrite" the roadmap during Sharon's visit to Washington on May 20 aimed at securing concessions for Israel.


    "Israel has some comments on the roadmap and we will listen to their comments but we do not plan to rewrite or renegotiate the roadmap," Powell said at a joint news conference with Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Moasher.


    Powell spoke after Palestinian officials expressed concern that Israel would not comply with the blueprint drafted by the US, UN, EU and Russia to end the violence and move towards the creation of a Palestinian state within three years.


    Powell met with Sharon and Palestinian prime minister Mahmud Abbas on Sunday but left the next day with nothing to show, having failed to secure Israel's official acceptance of the plan.


    It had been expected that Israel would promise at least a troop redeployment or the dismantling of settlement outposts in the West Bank, but Sharon's government announced only very minor goodwill measures, which sparked Palestinian fears Israel was trying to dump the roadmap altogether.


    The document calls on Palestinians to crack down on militants, but also urges Israel to freeze all settlement activity.


    However Sharon reiterated Tuesday in an interview with the Jerusalem Post that this issue, a major stumbling block in any negotiations, was not even on his agenda.


    "It is not something today that anyone is dealing with," Sharon told the English-language newspaper, saying that the Jewish state was under no US pressure to take any action even against unauthorised settlement outposts.


    "To move forward, the Palestinians have to move quickly and decisively against those who cling to the path of violence and terror," Powell said here.


    "And at the same time the government of Israel must do its part to improve the daily lives of Palestinians to ensure hope and to show respect," to the Palestinians, he added.


    "There is another opportunity for both sides to talk to one another before the week is out ... (to discuss) the issues of the greatest concerns to them," Powell said, referring to planned talks between Sharon and Abbas.


    A Palestinian official said that meeting would take place Saturday "to get Sharon's approval of the roadmap, since Powell was not able to secure Israeli acceptance."


    "The meetings with Powell were very positive but since Powell did not succeed, Abu Mazen felt he had to obtain Sharon's approval by meeting him directly," the source said on condition of anonymity.


    "We will wait and see what other comments Israel has on the roadmap, we will wait and see the results of the conversation between the two prime ministers," Powell said.


    "We will see where we go after that."


    Meanwhile in continuing violence five Jewish settlers and six Israeli soldiers were wounded Tuesday by Palestinian mortar fire on the southern Gaza Strip (news - web sites) settlement bloc of Gush Katif, military sources said.





    The army maintained its sweep of the West Bank, arresting seven Palestinians and demolishing the house of a militant from the hardline Hamas group, Palestinian security sources said.

    Israeli authorities also took the crackdown on radical Islamists to northern Israel Tuesday, with a massive raid on the Islamic Movement, a party suspected of laundering money for the Palestinian group Hamas.

    Israeli police said some 800 agents took part in the operation, arresting 14 Israeli Arabs from the Islamic Movement's bastion of Umm el-Fahm.

    "The arrestees are suspected of having been intermediaries between Palestinian terrorist organisations and Islamist organisation based abroad," Israeli Interior Security Minister Tzachi Hanegbi told public radio.

    "The huge transfer of funds has given Hamas a financial strength without which the movement would had found difficult to survive in the long term," he alleged.

    The raid mainly targeted the so-called "northern faction" of the party led by Sheikh Raed Salah and police maintained a large presence in the area to contain possible demonstrations protesting against the arrests.

    Meanwhile, Greek Foreign Minister George Papandreou, whose country holds the rotating presidency of the European Union (news - web sites), was following in the footsteps of Powell, with scheduled meetings with Sharon and Abbas in a bid to boost the ailing roadmap.

    But Israel complained that Papandreou was also planning to meet with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) Tuesday, in a move which Sharon has demanded that foreign diplomats avoid in order not to undermine Abbas' new power-sharing position.
     
  2. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Khan, if the Israeli public senses that a real chance for peace exists, and the issue of settlements is keeping Sharon from obtaining that peace, then I believe Sharon will lose his job.

    The election of Sharon was a signal to the Palestinians that the Israeli public no longer trusted Arafat after Arafat walked out on Clinton, Barak, and the peace process. Sharon won the PM's title because Israelis were scared, and they knew that Sharon is a warrior.

    If this "roadmap" is successful, I think the warriors will be retired.
     
  3. mrpaige

    mrpaige Contributing Member

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    I do believe the United States should exert due influence to get this situation underway regarding the Roadmap. While I can certainly understand the fear on the part of Israelis, the attempt at peace should still be taken (assuming this is a good deal, and I assume it is if we're pushing it. We've been known to be looking out for Israel).

    I'm skeptical that the violence against Israel will stop even after the roadmap is underway, but I still think an honest attempt has to be made. Sometimes you do have to put trust in people who don't deserve it to move forward (and I could say that about both sides).
     
  4. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    I agree that the violence will continue, even if a new Palestinian state is created. Groups like Hamas still want to destroy Israel, and a significant percentage of Palestinians agree with Hamas.

    Arafat also needs to be removed from the scene. He has not given up his power, and the new Palestinian PM appears to be a figurehead. As long as Arafat is calling the shots, peace will be impossible in my opinion.
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Sharon is 'difficult'. It is a difficult situation but I believe he should embrace the chance for peace.

    I trust Sharon compared to Arafat, but know nothing about this new fellow. I doubt he is Sadat II, but Sharon needs to reach half way out there to at least prove or disprove the peace possibilities.
     
  6. F.D. Khan

    F.D. Khan Contributing Member

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    I truly hope so. I think the US is moving in the right direction and I applaud Bush and Powell. I think there are many "old warriors" like Arafat and Sharon that have just been hating each other for too long to rationally represent the future of their people.

    I think the settlements are the issue, because the Barak deal that Arafat refused kept the settlements (which have grown exponentially since then) and all the road area between and around the settlement, in which Palestinians could not enter. It was like a phony state within a state. I think Arafat was wise not to accept the agreement. But I truly don't feel that Sharon will give the settlements up.

    If the situation arises that the US wants Israel to give up ALL settlements in the occupied territory, and make those territories into a Palestinian state, and Israel refuses, what do you think the US should do about it??

    I don't think Neo-con's like Richard Perle and Wolfowitz would ever question Israel's actions, and I think this will be the test to the world to show that the US is not anti-Islam, because of its deep roots with Israel.
     
  7. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Let's hear from a leading Israeli peace activist who is personally acquainted with Sharon. Arafat and all the leading players.

    ******************
    My Meeting with Arafat
    "Isn't He Irrelevant? Finished?"
    By URI AVNERY

    "Have you gone mad? Now? He is irrelevant! He's finished!" These were the reactions of some people when Israeli TV showed my meeting with Arafat in Ramallah this week.

    Is Arafat "finished"? If so, he has not heard about it. I found him in splendid shape. At some of my meetings with him over the last few years he frequently looked tired, even distant and self-absorbed. This time he was in good spirits. He talked energetically, reacted rapidly, poked gentle fun at his assistants and made some biting remarks.

    (For example: when we spoke about Sharon's demand that Abu-Mazen conduct mass arrests, he laughed: "But the Israelis have destroyed all our prisons, except the one in Jericho. And if we want to transfer a criminal there, we must ask the Quartet for a car, so as to be able to pass the Israeli checkpoints!")

    One can understand his lively mood. For the last year, his life has been hanging on a thread. Sharon could have sent his men to kill him at any moment. (Several times this danger seemed so close that my friends and I found it necessary to rush there as a human shield.) One of the Israeli officers boasted this week that "only a thin wall separated me from him." Now this danger has been rendered more remote --even if Arafat is still confined to his small building, amid surrealistic ruins.

    During the last 45 years, his life has been in danger many times. Dozens of attempts have been made on his life. Once his airplane crash landed, killing several of his entourage. He survived it all. This time, too. His sense of relief is understandable.

    There is also physical relief. Since he returned to Palestine, his workload has been incredible. As he insisted on attending to practically everything himself, big things and small, he worked inhuman hours, often until the early hours of the morning. Now he is free of a substantial part of the routine work, and the results are obvious.

    But the main thing is that Arafat's standing with his own people is now stronger than ever. Curiously enough, it is the appointment of a Prime Minister that has caused this. The appointment of Abu-Mazen, which was intended by Sharon and Bush to "weaken" Arafat and to "push him aside", has had the opposite effect.

    This requires an explanation. For years now, a continuous and concentrated campaign to demonize Arafat has been conducted in Israel and the West. In the ten years since Oslo, millions of words have been spoken and written about him in the Israeli media, and I don't recall one single word of praise. He has been systematically described as a terrorist, tyrant, dictator, corrupt liar, a cheat and what not. In particular he was represented as the man who said "no" to the unprecedentedly generous offers of Ehud Barak and President Clinton, which "proves" that in reality his aim is to destroy Israel.

    Those who have been fed with this propaganda cannot understand why Palestinians adore him. The answer is: for the very same reasons.

    In the eyes of the Palestinians --almost all of them --Arafat is a fearless leader, who stands firm in the most difficult circumstances; a man who has the guts to say "no" to the demands of the mighty of the world to betray fundamental rights of the Palestinian people. He has confronted the rulers of the Arab world without flinching; at Camp David he stood up to immense pressure from Clinton and Barak without yielding; he held out in the terrible conditions of the siege of his Ramallah compound without breaking.

    Palestinians, like all Arabs, like all peoples, admire personal courage. Arafat has proven his courage in conditions that no other leader in the world has had to face. He has come to symbolize the steadfastness of the whole Palestinian people. That is the source of his authority, even in the eyes of his many critics on the right and on the left.

    This authority is essential for Abu-Mazen's political effectiveness. Unlike Arafat, Abu-Mazen is popular in the West. He radiates moderation and readiness for compromise. This is the face the West wants to see. The two of them are a bit like Ben-Gurion and Sharett in the early days of Israel. Ben-Gurion was the idol of the Israeli public, while Sharett was popular on the international stage.

    Abu-Mazen is accepted by the Palestinian public. If another person had assumed office under such circumstances, he would have been suspected of being a collaborator. But Abu-Mazen is known as a Palestinian patriot, and is respected as one of the founders of the Fatah movement. Even in extreme demonstrations, I did not hear shouts of protest against him. However, he is not a charismatic leader and has no solid political base.

    That is why Abu-Mazen needs Arafat. Without his solid backing, Abu-Mazen will neither be able to make concessions abroad nor to act forcefully at home. More than ever, Arafat is essential for progress on the road to peace.

    But does Arafat really want peace? Most Israelis are unable to imagine such a thing. How could they? Did they ever hear the true story?

    From my personal experience, I can recount this: At the end of the October 1973 war, Arafat concluded that if the armies of Egypt and Syria were defeated after their unexpected brilliant initial successes, then there is no military solution to the conflict. As usual, he decided quickly and decided alone. He instructed his trusted aide, Sa'id Hamami, to publish an article in London calling for the attainment of a peace settlement with Israel by political means. (This induced me to meet with Hamami in secret, and since then I have followed Arafat's moves closely.)

    For the Palestinian national movement, the proposed change was redical. A political process instead of the sole reliance on "armed struggle". A peace settlement with Israel, which had taken possession of 78% of the Palestinian land and expelled half of the Palestinian people from their homes. That necessitated a mental and political revolution, and since 1974 Arafat has promoted this revolution cautiously and with determination, step by step. (I witnessed these steps - first through Hamami and Issam Sartawi, later in personal contact with Arafat.) in 1988 the Palestinian National Council at long last adopted this line explicitly, after a series of ambivalent resolutions. Abu-Mazen was closely connected with this process right from the beginning.

    Throughout this period, Yitzhaq Rabin and Shimon Peres actively opposed this development. (On this, too, I can bear personal witness, since I conveyed several messages from Arafat to Rabin.) It must be stated clearly for history's sake: Not Rabin and Peres were the spiritual fathers of Oslo, but Arafat and Abu-Mazen. The award of the Nobel Peace Prize to Peres and not to Abu-Mazen was, therefore, a gross injustice.

    Sharon, of course, does not want peace that brings with it a viable Palestinian state in all the occupied territories and the evacuation of the settlements. But he is far too shrewd to openly obstruct Abu-Mazen, the protegee of the West. Therefore he is concentrating all his efforts on breaking Arafat --knowing that without Arafat, Abu-Mazen would be ineffective.

    That is the crux of the matter. Arafat is essential for the peace effort. That's why I went to visit him.


    Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel: Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He can be reached at: avnery@counterpunch.org.

    averny
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    It is disgusting to see "peace" activists still meating with Arafat, who is a terrorist. I am appalled.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The idea for the roadmap isn't that one issue will creat peace. It's a series of steps that are supposed to eventually lead to peace. If Sharon won't even take the first step then he needs to have pressure applied. The idea is to keep implementing all the steps. Sharone is blocking yet another effort tward peace.

    Actually he needs to have pressure applied no matter what. He has oppressive measures that have no effect on terrorism. He could easily let Palestinians dig new wells, pay the same price for water as ISraelis, give Palestinians more than just a fraction of water allotted to Israelis.

    Sharone could remove the military edict to destroy any Palestinian business which could compete economically with and Israeli busines.

    Giving people an equal amount of water and fair opportunity to make a living won't breed terrorism. In fact it might even help to reduce it.

    Instead of having different laws and regulations based solely on nationality
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    So far it looks like more of the same. Appeasement of Sharon by Bush. Sharon responds with force. Of course this assumes that the Bush Admin wants a two state solution and isn't just playing the phoney delay game in chaoots with Sharon.
    ************
    CAIRO — The Bush administration said yesterday that it will not insist that Israel formally accept the "road map" for peace in the Middle East, saying the initial steps it has taken "in effect" mark the beginning of the plan's implementation. Top Stories
    Israel, meanwhile, imposed a harsh travel ban on the Gaza Strip just a day after promising Secretary of State Colin L. Powell a series of humanitarian gestures, including the release of Palestinian detainees and allowing more than 20,000 workers to return to their job................................

    sharon
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Talk about weak! The U.S. was badmouthing the UN for standing up to a bully in Saddam, when he failed to comply with resolutions. Now Sharon says he won't follow the roadmap to peace, and the administration backs down, and says it believes he is following the roadmap to peace that's ridiculous.

    Nobody in the U.N. dared to say that Saddam was basically in compliance with the resolutions - even the ones that were opposed to military action. But at least they were able to say that the resolutions weren't followed.

    Now Sharon basically says that he won't follow the roadmap to peace, and the administration appears appears cowed and claims that Sharon is following the roadmap. I wish our administration would grow a backbone.
     
  12. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    Were they eating steak with him, or is Arafat gay?

    Please explain, and don't use the old excuse that you were typing too fast!:D
     
  13. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    The reality of this situation is that Arafat walked away from the same peace arrangement that the new Palestinian PM would accept today. The Palestinians could have had peace, but they chose to target teenage girls in discos.

    This argument will be over in the next few years. Here are my fearless predictions for the next couple of years-

    1. Sharon will lose his position as PM because of his stance concerning the settlements.

    2. Arafat will be exiled for supporting more terrorist acts.

    3. A new Palestinian state will emerge, but Hamas and friends will still target little girls. Israel will rightfully be able to defend itself against the new Palestinian state, but this time their hands won't be tied by the international community.

    4. There will be regime change in Syria during the next 2 years because Syria aided Iraq in the hiding of WMD, and Syria will be regarded as the number 1 facilitator of terrorism.

    5. Once the Assad family is neutralized and Hamas and friends have nowhere to hide, then a real attempt at peace can finally be realized in the Middle East.
     
  14. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    omg, anybody who mentions Arafat and gay sex in the same sentence should be punished somehow!!!:eek:
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    this is honestly the scariest possibility...and i agree that it's far more than a possibility. who knows what israel would unleash on a separate nation attacking at it constantly? that makes me uneasy.
     
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    :D

    #1...I just mentioned the word gay, not the word sex. Look at my original post.

    #2...I don't think I should be punished. I should be given an award!
     
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    An Arafat- Sharon "meating" might be they key to lasting peace. :eek: ;)
     
  18. Woofer

    Woofer Contributing Member

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    http://www.msnbc.com/news/913118.asp?0cv=KB10

    Whatever Happened to Mideast Stability?
    The fall of Saddam was supposed to mean a fresh start. But the suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia underscore just how hostile the region remains to Americans and U.S. policies

    May 13 — Let’s rewind the tape a few months. As the Bush administration geared up for war in Iraq, many senior officials spoke glowingly about what victory in Baghdad would mean for the Middle East peace process. “If there were a change of regime in Iraq, would it help us in the peace process?” Paul Wolfowitz, deputy Defense Secretary, asked rhetorically a year ago. “You bet it would.”
    .
    .
    .
    But even if Arab nations open their arms to cultural reforms, there is one huge obstacle to such plans—and it’s the same obstacle that has kept these economic plans on the drawing board for the last decade. If there is one thing more complex and more emotional to negotiate than the historic rivalries of the Middle East, it’s free trade. After decades of lofty talk and no action, the European Union finally pulled together one of its grand conferences in Barcelona to propose a free trade area with the Arab countries of North Africa by 2010. That conference was eight years ago, and since then the process has been bogged down in bureaucracy. Two years ago, Europe finally agreed to a free trade deal with Egypt. However that deal only covered manufacturing, not the agriculture and clothing industries that would actually export anything substantial.
    So what are the chances that the United States could really deliver on free trade with the Middle East? At a time when it can barely agree on its own trade issues with Europe, those chances look slim. The best hope for the Bush administration’s post-war strategy on the Middle East—whether it’s the roadmap or free trade—is that it’s just too early to tell if the region has truly changed its colors.
     
  19. F.D. Khan

    F.D. Khan Contributing Member

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    I wonder why we are talking about a Regime change in Syria??

    Israel is the country that has been breaking UN sanctions for years?

    I think that Sharon brought the sword and nothing else. As soon as he says no to the Road Map he has an army excursion and bombing to spite Palestinians into an attack. Then when they do attack, he claims they don't want peace!?!

    But then again chicken, egg....chicken, egg...chicken, egg....


    uuuuhhh
     
  20. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Please Khan, you really can't use the "chicken or the egg" analogy.

    The Israelis accepted the original UN partition, and then the Arab armies attacked. The two sides have been at war ever since, but we all know who started this mess.
     

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