To Take on ISIS Americans Should End Support for Jewish Nationalism

cml750 · Nov 24, 2015

Wow, what an uniformed and utterly stupid thread!!!!

Deckard · Nov 24, 2015

glynch said: ↑

Well Condi Rice, the 911 Commission and Colin Powell are just simple
anti-semites who have no idea what role misguided support for the Jewish privileged state in Palestine played in a motivation for the Iraq War.
Click to expand...

I haven't read past this, glynch, so if you answered my question already, my apologies. My question? What is it you want, glynch? Do you want to remove the State of Israel from Palestine? I must be a little confused. Can you clarify your position for me? Thanks!

sirbaihu · Nov 24, 2015

The voters surveyed support sending U.S. ground troops to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria, 73% to 22% opposed. By a margin of 83% to 9%, they say the United States and its allies are now losing to ISIS.

The poll surveyed 600 likely Iowa Republican caucus voters between November 16-22 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/polit...-ted-cruz-ben-carson-election-2016/index.html
Click to expand...

Do we get a hat trick if we do three wars in Iraq?

LOL "losing to ISIS. . . ." Losing in what? Territory? Body count? Nothing.

Sweet Lou 4 2 · Nov 25, 2015

Bobbythegreat said: ↑

2. Going in and crushing ISIS is the ONLY thing that would work, sure there has to be cultural changes along with economic changes, but you don't get rid of ISIS with happy thoughts, it takes boots on the ground.
Click to expand...

You can't crush ISIS when ISIS doesn't wear uniforms and is indistinguishable from non-ISIS. Even if you kill the top leadership, it simply gets replaced. Just as we pretty much crushed Al Qaeda and it just morphed into something even more deadly and larger. It's like a hydra - cut a head off and it regrows two. That's why they don't mind fighting us - boots on the ground helps them recruit - a chance to kill and American soldier is a big incentive.

Invisible Fan said: ↑

The economics are pretty murky. I'm still amazed Saudi Arabia is considered a modernized nation and is among the G20. I shouldn't be surprised with the massive wealth they have, so more disappointed and terrified when the day comes when they become a failed state and the boil bursts spreading even more tender morsels of death and misery.

Building sand castles seems easy in a desert. Try building one on a foundation of oil.

The Israel issue imo has reached a point of no return. Barring some technological and economic miracle centered in that region, we've embedded 70+ years of cultural hatred there and it won't stop unless the people have more reason to love their land other than what some crusty old ****ers did long after the original buildings have crumbled and withered away.

Even if Israel does approach things peacefully, they will still be besieged on all sides with foreign radical money pumped into their borders to stir up some trouble. Fixing that requires a level of effort and understanding that goes beyond whatever the us can promote or drive and that rests solely on the shoulders of the israeli people and their identity.

That last bit sounds oddly familiar...
Click to expand...

I don't know if things in Israel can change, not without much pain probably, but the fact is right now there is little to no consequence for continued expansion. Israel's economy is dependent on U.S. aide and that of the world. Take that away and they face economic disaster. That will put pressure on them to make peace.

Identity is a strong thing. Pocket books are stronger.

glynch · Nov 25, 2015

Deckard said: ↑

I haven't read past this, glynch, so if you answered my question already, my apologies. My question? What is it you want, glynch? Do you want to remove the State of Israel from Palestine? I must be a little confused. Can you clarify your position for me? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I and increasingly others are in favor of a One State Solution. Jews and Palestinians should lie with equal rights in all the land now controlled by Israel, the West Bank and Gaza in a state similar to the United States with no one privileged religion or ethnicity. The Occupied Golan Heights which was seized by Israel in 1967 should go back to Syria or whatever is left of it after the civil war. BTW the desire to keep the Golan Heights is obviously one of the reasons why Israel wants to overthrow Assad and split up Syria.

More and more of the Palestinians and even Israelis are in favor of the one State Solution. Some just see it as practical now that Israel is displacing Palestinians from so much of the land that the Two State Solution is impractical and will never be accepted. Many Orthodox Jews for religious reasons do not want to give up one inch of territory and the vast majority of Palestinians no longer want a small statelet completely controlled by Israel. The Netanyahu or center of Israel wants to keep expanding until the facts on the ground leaving only the little statelet at best for the Palestinians which will never be accepted.

Essentially the land whatever it is called, whether one country or whether some sort confederation like Belgium or other countries will be one in which all ehtnicities and religions have equal and civil rights and can live wherever they want etc.

fchowd0311 · Nov 25, 2015

glynch said: ↑

I and increasingly others are in favor of a One State Solution. Jews and Palestinians should lie with equal rights in all the land now controlled by Israel, the West Bank and Gaza in a state similar to the United States with no one privileged religion or ethnicity. The Occupied Golan Heights which was seized by Israel in 1967 should go back to Syria or whatever is left of it after the civil war. BTW the desire to keep the Golan Heights is obviously one of the reasons why Israel wants to overthrow Assad and split up Syria.

More and more of the Palestinians and even Israelis are in favor of the one State Solution. Some just see it as practical now that Israel is displacing Palestinians from so much of the land that the Two State Solution is impractical and will never be accepted. Many Orthodox Jews for religious reasons do not want to give up one inch of territory and the vast majority of Palestinians no longer want a small statelet completely controlled by Israel. The Netanyahu or center of Israel wants to keep expanding until the facts on the ground leaving only the little statelet at best for the Palestinians which will never be accepted.

Essentially the land whatever it is called, whether one country or whether some sort confederation like Belgium or other countries will be one in which all ehtnicities and religions have equal and civil rights and can live wherever they want etc.
Click to expand...

Too many decades of damage and hate rhetoric being propagated by both sides will make it almost impossible for Palestinians and Israeli's to live side by side under one national flag. That's just the harsh reality. Too much damage has been already done to accomplish this. I would love nothing more for it to happen but it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

sirbaihu · Nov 26, 2015

Lord knows why we give Israel $2 billion a year. They should be paying us.

sirbaihu · Nov 26, 2015

This is from 2007, but it's weird how a brigadier-general said IS was a front with an imaginary leader.

Brigadier-General Kevin Bergner told a news conference that Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, leader of the self-styled Islamic State of Iraq, which was purportedly set up last year, did not exist.

The Islamic State of Iraq was established to try to put an Iraqi face on what is a foreign-driven network, Bergner said. The name Baghdadi means the person hails from the Iraqi capital.

Bergner said the information came from an operative called Khalid al-Mashadani who was caught on July 4 and who he said was an intermediary to Osama bin Laden.

He said Mashadani was believed to be the most senior Iraqi in the Sunni Islamist al Qaeda in Iraq network.

"In his words, the Islamic State of Iraq is a front organization that masks the foreign influence and leadership within al Qaeda in Iraq in an attempt to put an Iraqi face on the leadership of al Qaeda in Iraq," Bergner said.

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/18/us-iraq-qaeda-idUSL1820065720070718#cOQpPqobH7zQgES3.99
Click to expand...

LosPollosHermanos · Nov 26, 2015

I don't know about the thread, but I remember reading this and thought it was damning....like It just doesn't make sense.

What other ally uses spies like these...

Israel Spy Jonathan Pollard Freed From U.S. Prison After 30 Years

Israel spy Jonathan Pollard was freed Friday after serving 30 years in a U.S. prison, ending years of tension between Israel and the U.S. over his fate.

The Israeli government heralded Mr. Pollard’s release. “As someone who raised Jonathan’s case for years with successive American presidents, I had long hoped this day would come,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said, adding that Mr. Pollard had been reunited with his family.

Mr. Pollard, 61 years old, was arrested in 1985 on charges of spying for Israel and sentenced to life in prison. He is an American, but Israel granted him citizenship, while he was imprisoned. Successive Israeli governments have argued that a life sentence for spying on a close ally was too harsh, and that Mr. Pollard should be released early.

Previous attempts were repudiated by the U.S., in part because senior intelligence officials objected. The case became a source of friction between the U.S. and Israel and a national sensation in Israel.

Mr. Pollard was released in the early morning hours from a federal prison in North Carolina, officials said. Hours after he walked out of prison, his lawyers said they had filed a lawsuit in federal court in New York seeking to end what they called the “unreasonable and unlawful’’ parole conditions imposed on Mr. Pollard now that he is free.

RELATED

Jonathan Pollard Offers to Give Up U.S. Citizenship to Ease Move to Israel
Under the current terms of Mr. Pollard’s parole, which could last five years or longer, he must stay in the U.S. and get prior approval for any travel outside the district where he will live. He also must wear a GPS tracking bracelet and allow government agents to conduct spot checks on his personal and work computers.

His lawyers, Eliot Lauer and Jacques Semmelman, said in the court filing that Mr. Pollard objects to the monitoring conditions, including having an ankle bracelet to monitor his location. They said that a smartphone could perform the same function, and a bracelet could be dangerous because he suffers from diabetes and other medical conditions that can lead to swelling of the legs.

“The notion that, having fought for and finally obtained his release after serving 30 years in prison, Mr. Pollard will now disclose stale 30-year-old information to anyone is preposterous. Apart from the fact that the information is useless, disclosing it will result in Mr. Pollard’s swift return to prison to serve out his life sentence,’’ the lawyers said in a joint statement.

Mr. Pollard plans to work in the finance department of an investment firm, according to the court filing.

“He’s elated to be with his wife. He will spend the weekend with her. It’s phenomenal,” said Mr. Lauer. The lawyer said Mr. Pollard has medical conditions that need attention, and called freedom “a major transition” for his client.

The Parole Commission had already determined Mr. Pollard wasn’t likely to commit further crimes upon release—and Messrs. Lauer and Semmelman argue that the parole conditions make no sense based on that previous determination.

Israelis hold placards demanding Jonathan Pollard’s release at a protest in Jerusalem in 2014. ENLARGE
Israelis hold placards demanding Jonathan Pollard’s release at a protest in Jerusalem in 2014. PHOTO: REUTERS
As a civilian analyst with the U.S. Navy, he removed a large number of classified documents from government files and gave them to an Israeli handler over an 18-month period, according to U.S. officials. He eventually pleaded guilty and was sentenced to life in prison.

The U.S. Bureau of Prisons agreed to free Mr. Pollard in July, after a parole commission determined he should be released early from his sentence based on good behavior and that he was unlikely to commit new crimes if freed.

The release comes as relations between Israel and the U.S. are at odds over the Obama administration’s decision to pursue a nuclear deal with Iran and world powers.

When the decision was made in July, some U.S. officials hoped Mr. Pollard’s release would ease relations between the two countries, according to people familiar with the discussions. The Obama administration has denied any political or diplomatic considerations played a part in Mr. Pollard’s release.

A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment.

“Throughout the years, we have felt Jonathan’s pain, and felt responsible and obliged to bring about his release,” Israel’s President Reuven Rivlin said in a statement Friday.

U.S. lawmakers representing Mr. Pollard lobbied their Justice Department to allow the spy to renounce his U.S. citizenship and move to Israel, where his wife resides. He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1995.

Reps. Jerrold Nadler and Eliot Engel, both New York Democrats, wrote to U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch asking that Mr. Pollard be allowed to move to Israel.

The Justice Department hasn’t responded to the request, and it appears more likely that he will have to serve a five-year term of probation in the U.S.
Click to expand...

sirbaihu · Nov 26, 2015

LosPollosHermanos said: ↑

I don't know about the thread, but I remember reading this and thought it was damning....like It just doesn't make sense.

What other ally uses spies like these...

Israel Spy Jonathan Pollard Freed From U.S. Prison After 30 Years
Click to expand...

That's heartwarming. Israel loves their spy so much, they went and gave Israeli citizenship to him while he was a U.S. felon behind bars! They really like that guy. And he is requesting to give up his U.S. citizenship and move to Israel. . . .

Sure, Israel loves a guy who committed major crimes against the United States, but that doesn't mean they would do anything bad to us, right?

Forums

To Take on ISIS Americans Should End Support for Jewish Nationalism

cml750 Member

Deckard Blade Runner
Supporting Member

sirbaihu Member

Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
Supporting Member

glynch Contributing Member

fchowd0311 Contributing Member

sirbaihu Member

sirbaihu Member

LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
Supporting Member

sirbaihu Member

Share This Page

About ClutchFans

Rockets Content

Support ClutchFans!

To Take on ISIS Americans Should End Support for Jewish Nationalism

cml750 Member

Deckard Blade Runner Supporting Member

sirbaihu Member

Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member Supporting Member

glynch Contributing Member

fchowd0311 Contributing Member

sirbaihu Member

sirbaihu Member

LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan Supporting Member

sirbaihu Member

Share This Page

Deckard Blade Runner
Supporting Member

Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
Supporting Member

LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
Supporting Member