1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Watching NBA Action
    Come join Clutch as we're watching NBA playoff action live, including SGA and the Thunder taking on the New Orleans Pelicans

    LIVE: NBA Playoffs!
    Dismiss Notice

Texas tax cuts

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by JuanValdez, Apr 29, 2015.

?

Which tax cut plan do you prefer

  1. House: sales tax and business franchise tax reductions

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  2. Senate: School property tax reduction via homestead exemption

    6 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. Why not have both?

    10 vote(s)
    21.7%
  4. How about we leave taxes alone and actually fund some of the state's responsibilities?

    27 vote(s)
    58.7%
  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,114
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    So tax cuts are apparently coming in Texas whether we like it or not. But, there's two competing plans. Which one is better? The House bill focuses on reducing sales tax and business franchise taxes while the Senate bill cuts school property taxes by increasing the homestead exemption. Pick your poison.

    http://www.statesman.com/news/news/...texas-house-oks-49-billion-in-tax-cuts/nk48M/

    [rquoter]Texas House OK’s $4.9 billion in tax cuts

    The Texas House tentatively approved a $4.9 billion tax cut package Tuesday that would reduce the state’s 6.25-percent sales tax rate for the first time in state history.

    The cut makes up less than half the two-year package, though, with nearly $2.6 billion going toward business franchise tax reductions, including a 25-percent across-the-board rate cut.

    House Bill 31, which would reduce the state sales tax rate to 5.95 percent, passed 141-0. House Bill 32, which would cut the franchise or “margins” tax, passed 116-29. A final vote on the legislation is expected Wednesday.

    The votes move the lower chamber one step closer to tax cut negotiations with the Senate, which passed a much different mix of levy reductions about a month ago — a $4.4 billion, three-bill package that would, in part, reduce local school property taxes by increasing the homestead exemption. The House has yet to touch the legislation and overwhelmingly rejected an amendment to HB 32 Tuesday that would have expanded a small business exemption from the franchise tax — a component of the Senate plan.

    (In a rare move, House Speaker Joe Straus — who does typically cast votes — voted in favor of a motion to table that amendment, which passed 120-16. The San Antonio Republican also voted in favor of HB 32).

    At this point, the two chambers appear headed to a tax cut standoff, with neither side backing down — something that could hang up budget negotiations in the final weeks of the regular legislative session, which ends June 1.

    Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who presides over the upper chamber, has said he will reject a state budget that does not include property tax cuts — one of his campaign promises. House GOP leaders have not drawn such a line in the sand, but are not backing down either with 90 of the House’s 98 Republicans signing a “Dear Taxpayer” letter sent out over the weekend to rally public support for the tax cut plan — and explain why it is better than the Senate’s — ahead of Tuesday’s vote.

    State Rep. Dennis Bonnen, who crafted the tax cut package as the House’s lead tax policy writer, again painted the plan as superior to the Senate’s. (The Angleton Republican has traded public jabs with Patrick in recent weeks over the issue).

    He amended both bills Tuesday to allow the comptroller to further reduce the sales and franchise taxes if state revenue comes in higher than anticipated.

    Earlier Tuesday, the House’s lead budget writer acknowledged the two chambers likely will have to reach a compromise on tax cuts before they can do the same for the state budget, although he noted each would be worked out separately. (The House ordered its budget negotiators not to discuss tax cuts with their Senate counterparts).

    “My hope is that as we get closer to the deadline we’ll have a clearer picture of what’s going to come out of conference on that issue,” said state Rep. John Otto, R-Dayton, speaking at the first public meeting of a joint House-Senate panel charged with working out differences between the two chambers’ budget proposals.

    The House’s two-year budget proposal spends $209.8 billion total, while the Senate’s spends $211.4 billion — a sum that already accounts for tax cuts. The House budget does not include relief, but it leaves money on the table that will be used to cover the revenue loss — or cost — of its plan.

    Ursula Parks, director of the Legislative Budget Board, told the so-called budget conference committee Tuesday that while their plans are only $1.6 billion apart, they allocate their money very differently in some cases.

    However, Otto and Sen. Jane Nelson — the Senate’s lead budget writer — both brushed off the differences.

    “These budgets have much more in common than they do in conflict,” said Nelson, R-Flower Mound. “I am confident that we can work out the differences and pass a budget that will make Texas proud.”

    “We feel like we can get a budget and get out of here,” Otto said.[/rquoter]

    And here is another article with a bit more of the political context: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/new...ming-to-a-head/nk4jm/#58678fef.3868890.735716
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,414
    Likes Received:
    15,845
    If taxes have to drop, I'd prefer sales tax to property. While both theoretically affect everyone, sales tax would see a direct impact in people's pockets. Homeowners would benefit from the property tax, but renters probably wouldn't see most of it - owners would likely just pocket the extra profit.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,114
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Actually, I don't think renters would see any of it because, as I understand it, they want to adjust the impact of the homestead exemption. That exemption is only allowed to people who own and live on that property as their primary residence. A house rented out to someone else isn't supposed to get a homestead exemption.

    For me, I don't want to see any tax cuts because I think the state should provide more services (and better) than it does. I want to spend that money for the common good. But, if we're cutting taxes regardless, I'd much rather see a sales tax and franchise tax reduction. Sales tax is regressive, putting a bigger relative burden on you the less you have. And, I won't mind the cut in business taxes simply because I have a business of my own that pays boatloads of taxes. Meanwhile, the property tax is progressive, putting a more fair burden on the wealthy. And, for the double whammy, it'd reduce the money available to schools, which already are underfunded after the made up budget crisis we had a few years ago.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Half and half
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,590
    Likes Received:
    83,934
    There's also a serious push by a couple of powerful republicans from San Antone and San Angelo to give the Parks Dept more/most/all of the sales tax surcharge revenue from outdoor/sporting goods that they enacted solely for that purpose back in '07. Since then, only 41% of it has actually gone to TPWD, and not surprisingly the Dept is woefully underfunded and there's a huge backlog of maintenance projects.

    The state lands are the only place a huge percentage of Texans can realistically go to get outdoors and fish and hike and hunt and paddle and camp and whatnot.
     
  6. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    I agree. Texas is in no position to be giving out tax cuts at this point. All state departments are woefully underfunded at this point. 20 years of budget cuts and freezes eventually start to have big impacts and we're seeing it now.

    One of the first things I noticed when I visited my parents a few months ago is how awful the roads are now. And that makes sense considering the Texas DoT is operating on a multi million dollar budget shortfall. The same goes for several other departments in Texas.

    You can't just freeze spending in a state that has some of the fastest population growth in the US. Yet Texas legislators are content with starving critical agencies of funding while handing out tax cuts that frankly would have a relatively marginal impact.

    Oh and the biggest problem isn't the actual tax cut. It's the fact that the Texas Senate rewrote the rules on the spending cap. Until now, tax cuts have always counted as spending for the purposes of managing the spending cap. This makes sense. You have a choice with existing funding. You can use it to fund governemnt programs or give it back to taxpayers in the form of a tax cut. But ultimately the effect is the same. The money is spent in some fashion and counts against the state's total spending cap.

    Well Dan Patrick and company rewrote the rules in his tax plan to exempt property taxes as spending. This allows him to create the illusion that we are cutting property taxes while maintaining existing spending. That's a freaking lie. If you cut taxes, you are in effect spending money. But this stupid accounting trick will allow the supposed "fiscally responsible" Republican supermajority to claim that they cut taxes and held the line on spending.

    I miss Texas dearly but I'm happy to live in a state that is governed far more effectively than Texas's.

    BTW if you are going to implement a tax cut, how about a renter's credit? In Minnesota, renters who have an income under $58000 are entitled to a tax refund (it scales with your income so the lower your income, the larger the potential refund) The intention is to offset the fact that renters dont benefit from property tax fluctuations or cuts. When property taxes took a dive in 2009, renters were still paying the same rent and when the government passed a property tax cut, renters saw nothing as well. I think this would be a nice targeted cut that would really help the folks who need it the most.
     
  7. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    My favorite activity is always the what not.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    30,994
    Likes Received:
    14,523
    I get that leftists think all income belongs to the state first and they decide how much people get back. But most people don't think that way. They see a tax cut as taking less, not spending more.

    A tax cut is a reduction in revenue, not an increase in outlays.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,925
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Both tax cuts, please. We are overtaxed as it is. Spur consumer spending and business spending.

    Also use productivity and efficiency improvements to increase the ability to fund things.
     
  10. Remii

    Remii Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,622
    Likes Received:
    106
    Legalizing mar1juana would generate a lot of cash... Plus citizens wouldn't have to spend tax dollars to prevent it from being in the state when it's already here.
     
  11. ApolloRLB

    ApolloRLB Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    403
    If you have to choose then sales tax. I agree that mar1juana legalization would also increase revenue, decrease spending, and spur investment.
     
  12. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,470
    Likes Received:
    7,648
    Cutting the sales tax would benefit more people.
     
  13. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,461
    Likes Received:
    2,300
    Agree with the idea that tax cuts are dumb. If the state were flush in money, I'd get it. But as was previously stated, multiple agencies are broke. Tax cuts purely for political capital is a dumb idea.
     
  14. Classic

    Classic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    608
    how bout we keep it as is and spend $4.9 bil on infrastructure projects?
     
  15. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    30,994
    Likes Received:
    14,523
    agencies dont exist for their own sake
     
  16. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    6,477
    Likes Received:
    2,071
    My pappy taught me infrastructure projects is for commies and the poor. Tax cuts make me go YEEEE HAWWWWWW I don't even know the details and I don't care. No amount of information will ever change my opinion. If you say tax cuts aren't Jesus then you equal lib-pig commie half-black Hussein Obamarama! :mad: :mad:
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    494
    One has nothing to do with the other. Tax cuts do not positively impact economic growth in any meaningful way.

    How exactly do you propose to increase productivity and efficiency while cutting taxes at the same time.
     
  18. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    The sad part is that 4.9 billion is peanuts in Texas. The state needs a lot more than that in order to make up for decades of cuts. The DoT alone is short 5 billion dollars and that's just to maintain existing levels of road congestion. That also doesn't even account for the fact that the state has other problems like ageing water infrastructure, decaying power plants and utilities, rising health care expenditures (thanks for rejecting the medicaid expansion), and a school system that has been perpetually underfunded since the early 80s. (also the state's school funding formula was ruled unconstitutional so there's that issue as well)

    Not to mention revenues from oil extraction taxes are collapsing due to low oil prices and slowing production and the state has a comptroller's office that has no clue how to actually project revenues and spending (so good luck figuring out the actual state of Texas's finances)

    When you spend 20 years convincing Texans that government is worthless, you eventually end up with a government that is in fact worthless.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,812
    Likes Received:
    39,121
    With all due respect, is it possible for you to make a post down here that doesn't come across as a comment from Rush Limbaugh on a bad day?
     
  20. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    He treats the D&D like an open mic night in preparation for the main show: the Houston Chronicle comments section.
     
    2 people like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now