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Dragic - Lowry, who should be starter?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by 1510 Polk St, Mar 22, 2012.

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Dragic - Lowry, who should be starter?

  1. Kyle

    221 vote(s)
    65.2%
  2. Goran

    118 vote(s)
    34.8%
  1. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    All you posted were Lowry has a higher turn-over ratio, ignoring all the other improvements he had in other departments. A ton of people called you out on the flaws of your argument but you ignored all of them.

    Spreading false information is worse than no information. I rather you just use another point to aid your cause than continuously use a false point to mislead posters.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Agreed but the problem is that Dragic will want to go somewhere and start, that is also the same problem that the Rox will have with LLull when they want him over, he will want guaranteed playing time as well.

    Dragic is at the point where he has basically proven he can play and wants to start more than anything, same thing happened to Lowry, and he had to sign in CLEVELAND for crying out loud to make his $$$$.

    I mean he was willing to leave Houston and go to that crap hole just to get the starting gig, and you can't blame him - Dragic will be a good option for a lot of teams looking for a PG, and he is unrestricted, if Morey wants him he is gonna have to pay up, and probably trade Kyle.

    DD
     
  3. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Before Lowry signed anything, didn't Morey say he'd match any offer Lowry received? Morey was essentially letting Lowry know he was wanted in Houston but that he would let the market dictate the value of Lowry's contract.

    There was never any danger of Lowry leaving Houston.
     
  4. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Yes!! Les will do ok. Don't worry about him.

    We need a new owner who will spend to win. Les does good pr about spending, but just doesn't do it.
     
  5. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I don't keep track of those podcasts/interviews
     
  6. RockingRox

    RockingRox Member

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    Very good point, except that I'd save one of them off the bench depending on which position the 6th man of the opponent is. This way, we can keep the 6th man also in check. :grin:
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I actually thnk that DD has SOME points on Lowry Vs. Dragic, but the one thing that he is failing to recognize or note is that when you actually played the two of them together before the Lowry sickness Lowry was clearly the better player, and the clearcut leader on this team.

    Stats, size, athleticism aside, who is the leader on the court? and who is the one who got this team back in playoff contention almost single handily after the 3-7 start?

    I get it that if you take loyalty out of the question and just stick to abilities and stats then Goran might be your guy, but thats not the case. We all know how Lowry's competitive spirit and toughness play into how much he is valued by this organization.

    Since Goran, and Lowry seem to have different skills and talents that complement each other I dont see why it wouldnt be such a bad thing to maybe say... I want both if I can have them. Plus, they are two guards that play very well together.

    Theres no reason why the Mavericks can pay Jason Terry 11MM a year to come off the bench, and the Rockets couldn't look at a figure like say the mid level exception as an offer that works if he accepts. Which is exactly what the front office will try to do if they can IMO.

    However, with Goran, alot of that depends on what HE WANTS TO DO since he is an Unrestricted free agent this summer. What if the Rockets decide to trade Lowry on draft night, and then Goran decides to walk anyways to another team just for the hell of it??? Maybe he doesn't like warm weather. Who knows..... Then where does that leave the Rockets.

    The front office has to play this one very close to the tee. In an ideal world, you would LOVE to have both guys. Im sure they will try to have their cake and eat it too if they can. IMO, Lowry is my guy if I had to choose one. Thats because Im factoring in his stats, and abilities along with his drive to continue to improve among the elite of the elite PG's in the entire NBA along with his bulldog competitive sprirt he brings to the court and drive to be great.
     
  8. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Too bad then
     
  9. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

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    It's not that uncommon for a player to put up much higher than his career numbers production in a contract year.

    It's great for the Rockets if Dragic can continue to average 9+ assists and 15+ points a game on 50% + shooting or better for the rest of his career, and we decide to stick with him. I'm not convinced that will happen yet, but it's certainly better than being stuck debating if Rafer Alston, Mike James or washed up Steve Francis is the better PG for the team.
     
  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    There is a difference between managing your salary cap very closely, retaining flexibility at all costs, and being cheap.

    The Rockets have-

    -purchased a late first round pick in the Derick Fisher buyout trade
    -Spent 2.25 MM on the draft rights of Sergio Llull( a player who might never come over to the US, and might cost millions more to buy out.)
    -spent a few million to get Toronto to take David Andersen off their hands
    -Spent around 2 MM each to aquire the draft rights to Budinger & Taylor

    Thats evidence that Les appears to be willing to go above and beyond the salary cap to spend on player and asset aquisitions. Almost every time the Rockets make a deal, there is almost always cash going out to the other team.

    Les does has a stockbroker type mentallity that leaks into the way they manage their salary cap flexibility Ill admit that, but outside of their cap I see no difference in the way he is as an owner in comparison the average NBA owner.

    Alot of the "Le$ is cheap" notion comes from racial stereotypes that nobody will admit, but those notions are slid under the table in alot of different ways. The "Le$ is cheap" argument is purely an opinion that doesn't translate to way he spends in regards to NBA salaries.

    Since his tenure as the Rockets owner they have not spent any less than the medium average of NBA teams. If you want to call him a "cheap" NBA owner, then you might as well say that Jay Z is a cheap NBA owner because he isn't going deep into the lux tax.
     
  11. jaxwithanx

    jaxwithanx Member

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    ....seems like everyone forgot how Lowry had been playing lately before the injury. Seems to me that there is more than a legitimate argument for Dragic to start and let Lowry win it back....

    After all, he should understand that concept....he won the job originally from a guy who wouldn't fight back for his spot.
     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Given the nature of his sickness, there is no way Lowry will be 100% when he is inserted back in the lineup. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if at first he has to come off the bench for limited minutes.

    Also if he comes back just a few games before the playoffs I doubt McHale will want to tamper with the rotation any if at all other than replacing Lowry for Fortson, and maybe giving some minutes to Martin off the bench. I think its too close to the playoffs to mess with the rotation a week before the playoffs.
     
  13. c1utchfan925

    c1utchfan925 Contributing Member

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    What he said.
     
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I guess larsv8 is referring to a December interview with Morey on rockets.com:

    http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/q_with_daryl_morey_december_2011_12_29.html

    [rquoter]
    JCF: Everybody always talks about the Rockets’ search for an All-Star but one of the things that doesn’t get brought up as much – even though you mention it quite often – is the possibility of someone on the current roster ascending to All-Star status. The guy I always look to in that regard is Kyle Lowry, especially based on what he did the last couple months of last season. We got a great glimpse of that as well in the Orlando game. I know this is the golden age of point guards, but do you think Kyle is an All Star caliber point guard right this second?

    DM: I absolutely agree with your assessment that people don’t talk enough about the ability of the players on our roster to reach that All-Star level or to at least take big steps forward. But I would say Kyle needs to get one more notch higher – and every notch gets harder, right? – but I absolutely think he has that ability. It is a very loaded position at the point guard spot in the league right now. We don’t even necessarily need him to make the All-Star game; we just need him to take one more step forward and I think he can do that.

    I think Kevin Martin, with focus on defense, is another guy who could move up into All-Star caliber territory. Obviously among the young players I think Terrence Williams has a chance to take a big step forward; Chase has a chance to take a big step forward; Patrick Patterson and Jordan Hill can take a big step forward – then we might get some contributions from Marcus Morris or Chandler Parsons this season. Up and down the roster we’ve got ways for our team to take a step forward. Now obviously we’ve got to do it and we also could have people go the other way and have bad seasons. But if we can get solid play from a lot of guys and then have one or two take a big step forward like Kyle did last year then we’ll be a playoff team.


    JCF: What is this step that Kyle needs to take?

    DM: We need him, for all 30 to 35 minutes that he’s going to play per game this year, to play at the level he used to be able to play at during the 15 to 20 minute per game stints he had two years ago. It’s honestly an unrealistic thing to ask a guy to do. But we need someone to do something a little bit unrealistic frankly – that’s our challenge. Kyle’s one of those candidates.

    If he can play with the unbelievable pace and ability to attack the basket for an entire game similar to the way that he played in 15 to 20 minutes a couple years ago, then he’ll be there – he’ll definitely be playing at an All-Star level then. That’s why, when Kyle was coming off the bench, our bench was the best in the league basically. We were absolutely annihilating people and it was because Kyle was coming in and playing at a level that may not be sustainable. But if he can sustain it, he would definitely be at an All-Star level.
    [/rquoter]

    Morey clearly says that Lowry took steps forward last year. He said he'd like Lowry to play more at that "unbelievable pace", like he did in more limited minutes off the bench, but be able to do so as a starter. He also said that is an extremely difficult task, implying that more realistically Lowry needs to strike a balance between managing the game during his 35 minutes and picking his spots to where he can ramp up the energy level like he used to when he was an energizer off the bench.

    None of that, implies that Lowry was contributing more or was a better player 2 years ago. The funny thing was that certain people would criticize him for playing with too much frenetic energy a couple years back, saying that he'd have to scale that back if he wants to be a starter. He's done so, and now the criticism is he isn't playing like he used to.
     
  15. Spooner

    Spooner Member

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    LOL WOW!!!!

    People actually prefer Goran over Kyle now? Shows how incredibly short minded most people are on this forum.

    Having said that, I like Goran a lot. I was the one defending him in the beginning of the season when everyone else made him out to be terrible. I never understood why he was a scapegoat early on. It's baffling. Where are all of those people who resorted to name calling when all I argued was that "Goran is a great back up point guard"?
     
  16. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Thanks for the link Durv.

    It's always nice to throw in some evidence to support a premise :cool:.
     
  17. houstunnin

    houstunnin Member

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    youre right be honest and real..Gragic is a better passer. Lowry to me he's like a SG playing PG but lowry is good and they both can do about the same..but Gragic he dosent stop..I dont know man I will love to have them both...for awhile..hard to say....lowry takes alot of shot but gragic is consistent double double easily. and do bit of everything..rebound n steals.
     
  18. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    Given Kyle illness, Dragic should start this year.


    The simple logical conclusion i see Morey making is we keep Dragic and trade Lowry. We can't trade Dragic, and Goran has closed the gap enough that they are comparable players.

    The combo of Martin,Lowry, Morris,Bud,Patterson,Scola and all of our draft picks (2 i assume) we should be able to make major trades this offseason. Lowry would be the key component in a major deal.
     
  19. Spooner

    Spooner Member

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    Oh so now Kyle Lowry plays like a shooting guard? :confused:

    WTF?? LMAO!!!!
     
  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the help. I give you an assist.

    I stand by my statement that he was playing better two years ago which was my premise.

    Seems silly to me if Lowry can play at an unbelievable pace off the bench and Dragic plays much better as a starter, why you wouldn't give those two those roles.
     

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