Correct. Israel will be a place of strategic interest, because of their technological capabilities and the relationship between us and them. Palestine isn't. The importance of what Israel does to Palestine has massively decreased over the past few years as other actors in the Middle East make their rise and other actors who would have once supported the PLO ( especially Saddam) have fallen. Overall, the Arabs as a whole no longer care about Palestine as much they used to - observe that the language of the Arab nations so far has been extremely muted compared to past Israel operations.
Since the outcome is that innocent people die it is the same to me. when you kill many more innocent people than the one who is indiscriminately firing rockets at some point you lose moral high ground. I can see why in your example it is morally better for me to kill the attacker than for me to be killed. Unfortunately for the children of the woman I killed it will not feel that way. on top of that in your example I am just a innocent bystander who suddenly is threatened by an mad man, who is threatening a innocent woman. But that is not how the situation is. Israel is not an innocent bystander. It is debatable who is the instigator (which I am sure you and also the pro Palestinians posters disagree with). We will not agree on this subject no matter how many hours we have this discussion. Let's agree that if we ever meet in person we will have a nice drink and talk about basketball or soccer (if you are ever in the neighborhood let me know :grin.
No one here has been equating morality between Israel and Hamas. In fact, numerous times people you accuse of being Islamist, terrorists, death cult followers, etc, have all denounced the tactics used by Hamas. Israel trying to protect civilians? Here are the fact from this conflict: Total Palestinians killed: 789 Palestinian civilians killed: 578 Militants killed: 119 Percentage of civilians killed: 73.2% Total Israeli killed: 37 Israeli civilians killed: 3 IDF soldiers killed: 34 Percentage of civilians killed: 8.8% Calling a school and telling them to evacuate is proper. Bombing that school because the inhabitants cannot evacuate because of nearby fighting/shelling is not. Especially after confirming that 200+ civilians are inside and having their GPS coordinates to prevent any direct shelling. Even more so when those inside have been trying to coordinate with the IDF when they can evacuate only to be ignored. The facts don't lie and your inability to acknowledge them only displays your ignorance.
For those moderates who still believe Israel is acting in good faith in its conduct and will negotiate on the two state solution. An exerpt from an article by an ex-president of the American Jewish Council. *** But on July 12, as noted in The Times of Israel by its editor, David Horovitz, Netanyahu made clear that he has no interest in a genuine two-state solution. As Horovitz puts it, “the uncertainties were swept aside … And nobody will ever be able to claim in the future that [Netanyahu] didn’t tell us what he really thinks. He made it explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank.” The IDF, Netanyahu said, would remain permanently in the West Bank Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...oked-this-war-109229_Page2.html#ixzz38UAwEpVE
Shame on Israel for this war crime. **** A new element entered the current Gaza war on Thursday, as Israel shelled a UN school full of displaced persons taking refuge there and large protests broke out in the Palestinian West Bank. The shelling of the UNRWA school, which killed 15 and injured 200, was a war crime. The UN had given the school’s coordinates to the Israelis, so they knew it was a school and was holding displaced persons. The UN, when informed it would be shelled, asked for more time to evacuate people but were denied it. http://www.juancole.com/2014/07/destiny-palestine-uprising.html
Thank goodness the Israelis aren't police in a hostage situation. If bank robbers take hostages, there is serious effort to get the hostages released. There are negotiations for hours if not days. Creative solutions are employed to extract the hostages without them dying. If Israel were the police and there were hostages they would simply blow up the entire bank and call it justified. I'd like to believe that isn't accurate, but it's getting more and more difficult.
Israel may have the right to defend themselves. But they are doing it in a very stupid way. They've done it this way time and time again and it doesn't bring them any closer to peace. In fact it pushes them further away from peace yet they keep doing it. There need to inflict pain on those that inflict pain on them is greater than their need to solve the problem. Here's the thing. If I'm being shot at by the guy hiding behind a civilian and have been shot at by his group before. I would look at what I've done before. If every time they shot at me while hiding behind a woman and they were shooting at me with a bb gun, and I used a grenade to blow that person up, kill the hostage and other people around, and I see that makes the group more angry and gains them more support, and a short time later they will be using their bb gun on me while hiding behind a hostage again, I would probably try and find if there was a way I could do something to keep the guy from shooting at me in the first place. I would do everything in my power to make sure the guy with the bb gun knows he doesn't need to shoot at me. I would try that tactic instead of ignoring the hostage and using the hand grenade for the 50th time and thinking that somehow this time it will help the situation. Sure the guy is firing at me, and I have a right to defend myself. But I might want to try and be smarter about it.
The whole world sees Israel's real colors now. They have taken a massive hit due to social networds, videos, etc. Jews and Israelis are protesting over these killings. That in itself speaks volumes of Israel's actions.
Can Palestinians protest the firing of rockets against Israeli civilians? Have they? It has been going on for years.
That is why support for Hamas was also very low. It's aggressive behavior from Israel such as this past month that gives rise and support to Hamas and other worse factions.
Multiple countries condemning Israel's aggression and the UN calling for investigation into Israeli war crimes.
Hamas brings rocks to a gun fight. Those rockets don't do anything and the last time I checked, two wrongs don't make a right in the first place. You want to support the side that is killing innocent civilians including women and children...well, you're in the minority. You're my boy, ATW, but I can't see how you can support the manner of Israel's reaction. They're gangsters.
And to add, Palestinians are a bit busy just trying to survive right now. So many heart-breaking stories. This world we live in can be cruel.
Those rockets don't do anything because of Iron Dome. You would see a lot more of this if it wasn't for Iron Dome: http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/IDF-soldiers-wounded-as-Gaza-terrorists-attempt-to-infiltrate-Israel-363446 Furthermore, by storing these rockets in civilian infrastructure, they are essentially making them giant bombs. The rocket supply needs to be destroyed and their ability to fire from highly populated civilian areas into highly populated civilian areas needs to be stopped. It would be better if the rockets could be dealt with diplomatically, but this hasn't worked in the past. Hamas is losing the war on the ground, but winning the propaganda battle. Every dead baby to them is a trophy to display on the media. On a personal level, I do mourn the loss of every innocent life. Extremists on both sides have hijacked the peace process. You can't justify or trivialize any action that props these groups up, including rocket fire. Also, just because something is of a majority opinion doesn't make it right. There are over 375M arab muslims alone on the planet to roughly 13.9M jews. I would think one voice is going to be louder than the other...
^Plenty of non-Arabs are calling out Israel. So many countries want to investigate Israel for a reason. Jews, Israelis don't agree with this brutality.
It's not one-sided, stop implying that it is. This is the same dog and pony show that it has been for years. 1. Palestinian terror groups and settlers piss off the other side. 2. Israel typically responds to the terror groups citing civilian security measures. 3. Hamas/Islamic Jihad retaliate and intensify their efforts. (Formerly this also included Hezbollah, but they hate Hamas right now) 4. Conflict escalates into all out war. 5. Israel gets blasted by the UN due to the voices of arab nations. Gets accused of war crimes and genocide. 6. Innocent Palestinians are caught in the crossfire. 7. Israel forced by UN/world pressure to stop before they can finish off Hamas and Hezbollah. 8. Wait 2-3 years and go back to step 1. This go round could be different since Hamas doesn't have the powerful Hezbollah support it once enjoyed. Palestinians once loyal to Fatah also do not forget what Hamas did after winning the elections. Egypt also hates Hamas as much as it does the muslim brotherhood. Right now we are on step 5. This is par for the very sad course we are always stuck on.
Even if Israelis did purchase large tracts of land legitimately and non-coercively, that doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing practiced on a larger scale. I am not pushing a narrative, I'm telling you the history of what happened. I don't have an agenda here where I am for one side or against another. I just find the killing of human beings to be very disturbing and a serious thing to do. There war isn't lost nor over. Don't be naive. They no longer are fighting for land but rather self-respect. And that is a foe that won't be defeated unless you totally annihilate them. And not all wars have to be fought with bullets or bombs. They are fighting for something and that fight will evolve. Into what is the question.
