[Chron] Andre Johnson no longer wants to be a Texan

Actually not really, 55 receptions and 1110 yards would be a terrible season for him if he's healthy. He hasn't had a healthy season that bad since Derek Carr.

 

Hopkins will have a break-out type year.

 

so will Johnson show up tomorrow??

 

He'd be a fool not to......so maybe? LOL

 

Yes, but those are long-standing, established milestones that have, for many, many years, influenced voting habits. This 90 y/g might develop into a standard - but it is not commonplace currently and it has had no influence whatsoever thus far (despite your claim that it has - btw, when are you going to list all the players with multiple 90 y/g seasons who easily got into the HoF...?)

No, it's what *you* value. We have decades worth of voting evidence to suggest what "not-you" values, and when you take a look at the inducted WRs, rings are universally held in the highest esteem, followed by career longevity and massive stat accumulations. Lofton, Monk, Reed, Carter ... even Rice all had very long, very productive careers – and none of them had 90 y/g seasons (other than Rice).

AJ was named to two All-Pro first teams (same # as CC, btw) and none since 2009 - his status as "best WR in the game for several years" (let alone "by far") is verifiably not an opinion the PFWAA association shares with you.

No, because we're not talking about a career-long shortcoming but an obviously one-year anomaly. Calvin Johnson had 12 and 16 TDs in the two years prior; 12 the following season.

There's a longstanding knock against players, systems, etc. that goes something like this: great between the 20s; falters in the red zone. Schaub heard it often. And I'd argue it's far more commonplace among football circles than 90 y/g being a one-way ticket to the HoF. (BTW, I'll take this opportunity to mention again that you didn't list any players with multi-90 y/g seasons who easily sailed into the HoF…..)

There are a lot of caveats for WRs because they're half of an equation - and even then, they're one of sometimes 4 or 5 options on any given play. So they all have excuses why they didn't do this or that. Expecting the PFWAA to do as deep a dive in AJ's career as you or I might is wishful thinking, IMO. He put up a lot of yards but few TDs and fewer winning seasons. On an overcrowded ballot, that kind of surface-level thought will permeate, unfortunately. Makes it easier to trim the fat.

 

He will? We don't even know if he's going to report to camp; I think projecting future ranking for him is getting way ahead of ourselves.

 

Hey Now! <--- paints a bleak picture of what AJ's Hall chances. Puts another perspective on his holdout

Rocket River

 

Here's your total list of NFL players eligible for the HOF that aren't already in the HOF that have 2 90+ yards per game seasons.....

Charley Hennigan, Jim Benton, Billy Howton, Harlon Hill.

In all 4 cases, the 2 seasons were extreme outliers in their careers and most of their careers were very short.

Here's the list of players that have 3 90+ yard seasons that are eligible for the HOF that aren't already in the HOF.




See what I'm getting at?

 

And that's my point. That's going to trump rather the voters like him or not IMO. Many believe no other WR dominated on the field like Moss in his prime (before he got with Brady)... He was an animal, forget the numbers the eye test told the story. And he did it during a none pass happy era with all of the rule changes and he had suspect QB's. The media already speaks of Moss as being a 1st ballet Hall Of Fame enshrinee and Peter King was practically the only guy advocating that Moss still had gas in the tank when he was at San Francisco. Once Randy is eligible he jumps to the front of the line and no other receiver can get in before him and there may not even be another candidate more worthy at any position to knock Randy out so they will practically have no choice but to vote him in when he's 1st eligible.

As far as AJ... Like I said I agree with what you say but Bobby does make a point "if" you're going to use "his numbers don't result to wins" because Calvin's doesn't either and he has a #1 draft pick quarterback.

Moss is another reason why Carter took so long to get in (besides his coke problem and getting cut). Stallworth had that problem because he played with another great receiver, RB, QB, and O-Line. Reed played with a great RB/QB. A lot of these receivers had/have to wait because they weren't even the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best offensive player on their teams.

Reggie Wayne is going to have that same problem and when he didn't have a stud quarterback and a stud WR opposite of him he didn't even have a 1000 yards receiving. AJ has had virtually no help. And outside of Houston city limits, the rest of the NFL world feels sorry for him and considers him a "good guy." He may get the sympathy vote and could get in the Hall before Reggie.

 

I do. Number of players that meet your criteria and are in the HoF? Five. And two of those five (Maynard and Mitchell) waited 9 and 10 years, respectively.

To be fair, two (Rice and Alworth) we're first ballot; Irvin went in his third year - but his three rings are far more critical than his two 90 y/g seasons. As I said, it's an impressive stat; but to argue it's an engrained, first ballot guarantee... there's no evidence to support it. Rice and Alworth are first ballot selections with or without it.

 

That's fair, after all, when you have to count on numerous people voting it's impossible to say for 100% certainty what WILL happen, I was just saying what SHOULD happen. Could they make Andre wait a few years? Maybe, but they shouldn't. I think the next few years will decide if he's someone who is first ballot, or someone who will have to wait. If his career peters out and his a distraction to his team off the field (whatever team that is) then he might have to wait a while. If he has 2 or 3 more solid years and all the BS ends then I think he's got a real shot at first ballot.

 

Just for fun, Dre has 12,661 yards in his career.

13,778 would get him in the top ten, but Reggie Wayne is still playing so Dre would have to pass 2 (Cris Carter @ 13,899)

~1200 is obviously attainable this year, but it would probably take playing every game and Fitzpatrick not being a complete joke.

Do you guys think he gets enough to be top 10 this year?

I'll say yes.

 

Depends on if he shows up to camp, he'll have to stay healthy to pull it off and if he skips a significant portion of camp, the odds of him staying healthy are slim.

 

Andre, topped the 11,000 yards, being the 3rd fastest player to reach the amount, and the 6th-fastest player to reach 10,000 yards.

the texans scored a lot of running TDs. when they were inside the 5 yard line, so Andre could have more if they would have threw it to him.

Also, Andre Johnson has more rec yards, and its 4 TDs to reach Michael Irvin, who is in the HOF.
and Andre didnt have the team that Michael Irvin had.

I think he is going to be in the HOF, but maybe not in the first ballot.

 

WR Andre Johnson has reported to Texans Training Camp >>> http://vbs.cm/T01H2q

 

But everybody was saying ... it ... would ... never ... happen.

 

Agreed; 100%. This was never about *my* opinion; my opinion is that he's first-ballot worthy and certainly Hall of Fame worthy. But the PFWAA stands in the way and they have some fairly consistent criteria that has, at least historically, made it difficult for guys like Andre Johnson to sail in. And I think the (likely) backlog of worthy receivers is going to make it harder, as will the likely obliteration of the record book in a pass-happy, no-huddle spread era of the NFL.

I will argue with a tree about Jeff Bagwell's HoF worthiness. I think his lack of support borders on offensive - nope, it IS offensive. And I think Andre Johnson has an eerily similar road, minus the PED witch hunt. Terrific, underrated talent in a, by sports standards, irrelevant market playing far too often in anonymity. In fact, the Bagwell fiasco informs much of my opinion of Johnson’s chances; I just don’t trust a group that, far more often than not, proves to be lazy, stubborn, and antiquated.

 

I think he'll get in; I just don't thnk he's a slam dunk, which is a shot at the PFWAA not Johnson's accomplishments. Wins alone are going to be tough for him to overcome; they really hate it when individuals don't win team games. And how do you win football games? By scoring TDs - which, for all his greatness, AJ has struggled to do (regardless of the why; again, I wouldn't assume they'll properly scrutinize it). For a lazy group like the PFWAA, that's a much too easy connection to make.

 

This is my thinking as well.