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[China flexing its pimp hand] China to demand guarantees for T-bonds

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by robbie380, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Timmaaaaaaaaay when you demand so much money you better know how to get in your place boy.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_dsDz145J_A&refer=home

    China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasury Bond Holdings, Yu Says

    Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won’t be eroded by “reckless policies,” said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.

    The U.S. “should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way,” Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt.

    Benchmark 10-year Treasury yields climbed above 3 percent this week on speculation the government will increase borrowing as President Barack Obama pushes his $838 billion stimulus package through Congress. Premier Wen Jiabao said last month his government’s strategy for investing would focus on safeguarding the value of China’s $1.95 trillion foreign reserves.

    China may voice its concerns over U.S. government finances and the potential for a weaker dollar when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits China on Feb. 20, according to He Zhicheng, an economist at Agricultural Bank of China, the nation’s third-largest lender by assets.

    “In talks with Clinton, China will ask for a guarantee that the U.S. will support the dollar’s exchange rate and make sure China’s dollar-denominated assets are safe,” said He in Beijing. “That would be one of the prerequisites for more purchases.”


    Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu said yesterday that talks with Clinton would cover bilateral relations, the financial crisis and international affairs, according the Xinhua news agency.

    Treasury Returns

    U.S. government bonds returned 14 percent last year including price gains and reinvested interest, the most since rallying 18.5 percent in 1995, according to indexes compiled by Merrill Lynch & Co. Concern that the flood of bonds would overwhelm demand caused Treasuries to lose 3.08 percent in January, the steepest drop in almost five years, Merrill data show. The yield on the benchmark 10-year U.S. Treasury has risen to 2.83 percent from 2.21 percent at the end of last year.

    China’s loss of more than $5 billion from investing $10.5 billion of its reserves in New York-based Blackstone Group LP, Morgan Stanley and TPG Inc. since mid-2007 may increase its demand for the relative safety of Treasuries.

    “The government will be a net buyer of Treasuries in the short-term because there’s no sign they have changed their strategy,” said Zhang Ming, secretary general of international finance research center at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing. “But personally, I don’t think we should increase holdings because the medium- and long-term risks are quite high.”

    Currency Reserves

    China’s foreign-exchange reserves, the world’s biggest, grew about $40 billion in the fourth quarter, the smallest expansion since mid-2004 as an end to yuan appreciation since July prompted investors to pull money out.

    The world’s third-biggest economy grew 6.8 percent in the fourth quarter, the slowest pace in seven years. Policy makers cut interest rates by the most in 11 years and announced a 4 trillion yuan ($585 billion) economic stimulus plan in November to spur domestic demand.

    Yu said China won’t channel its reserves toward stimulating the economy because its trade surplus is sufficient to fund any import needs. China’s trade surplus was $39 billion in December, the second-largest on record.

    A decline in reserves “isn’t likely because of China’s huge twin surpluses,” Yu said. China “should diversify its reserves away from U.S. Treasuries if the value of China’s foreign- exchange reserves is in danger of being inflated away by the U.S. government’s pump-priming,” he said.

    Linking Disputes

    China may try to link trade and currency policy disputes to its future investment in Treasuries, said Lu Zhengwei, an economist in Shanghai at Industrial Bank Co., a Chinese lender partly owned by a unit of HSBC Holdings Plc.

    U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner accused China on Jan. 22 of “manipulating” the yuan to give an unfair advantage to its exporters in the global market. The currency has dropped 0.14 percent since the start of this year to 6.8326 per dollar, following a 21 percent gain since a peg against the dollar was abandoned in July 2005.

    “China can also use this opportunity to get a promise from the U.S. not to make inappropriate requests on bilateral trade and the Chinese yuan,” Lu said. “We can’t afford more yuan appreciation as the economy is facing a serious slowdown.”
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Or else what?
     
  3. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    or else they don't buy
     
  4. Ari

    Ari Member

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    China has no alternative, we own them as much as they own us.

    Economic interdependence FTW!
     
  5. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    I was an Econ major once but have since lost that part of my brain.

    What happens if China stops buying T-bills or floods the market with them?
     
  6. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    our borrowing costs skyrocket.
     
  7. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    and if they decide they can't buy because they feel money is better spent at home?
     
  8. zantabak1111

    zantabak1111 Member

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    everyone should be buying TIPS(Inflation protected bonds) because with all the money we're pumping into the system the dya china denies us more money boom, the real game begins.
     
  9. orbb

    orbb Contributing Member

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    Dont kid yourself... in comparison to what would happen to our economy, it would be a mild annoyance to them.
     
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    If China wants to play by these rules (using financial mechanisms to intimidate the other country politically), then we should join them - tell them that if they don't float the Yuan and free all political dissidents, we will default on all bonds that we owe them.
     
  11. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Too bad there's no other place to put their money. Global stock markets are trash and no other country's bonds are close the America's. Recession's only boost the value of bond markets, China can't come close to making demands in this environment. Bond prices are skyrocketing because everyone is trying to find safe investments.
     
  12. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

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    leave a message china, we will get back to you.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    2 questions:

    1. where are they going to put their money? The answer isn't euros, sterling or yen. And further if they attempt to convert to yuan, keep in mind that they are paid in dollars for all their exports and hold massive dollar reserves. If they convert it to Yuan that means they are selling dollars and buying yuan and strengthening the yuan and weakening the dollar - this is precisely the outcome they are complaining about the US trying to impose on them.
    2. Oh really? A mild annoyance? Who is going to replace its largest export market and help it maintain the 5%+ annual growth it needs just to keep from imploding? Keep in mind the answer is not Europe, China, or emerging markets.

    Is this 2007? Have you been reading about "decoupling"? If so I have $100 barrel an oil and lots of BRIC ETF's to sell you.
     
  14. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    Yeah right, like we will actually bankrupt the whole country just to force China to float the Yuan.
     
  15. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    Yen is an option, euro might be less desirable, but there are options outside of USD. China doesn't have to change wholesale from USD to other currencies, but just switching some will have an impact on US borrowing costs.

    Did you hear how much more money the fed is going to need? Imagine how much new debt we are going to put out.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    If you think that Yen is an option you don't know much about history....and if other countries are also running deficits to keep their economies from imploding - what's the rationale?

    And what are these other options? Blackstone stock?

    It's far more likely China would bankrupt 50% of its end use export market because it is mad about people telling it to float the yuan.
     
  17. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Couldn't China Just add more jobs internally by building more highways, bridges airports etc internally and add more domestic demands like the US goernment want to do? They would not have to borrow any more for this as they have two trillion worth of reserves.
     
  18. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    United States have to get away from the policies of building up such high debt for both the government and consumers eventually, it is just not possible to continue down this path forever. Countries like China should save somewhat less and spend more to bring more balance to the equation. Only a relatively balanced partnership can last in the long run.
     
  19. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    The people who are buying Yen see it as an option.

    You don't actually believe we will default on our debt?
     
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Ya, if the US default on the debt it would be worse for the US than the great depression.
     

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