I think too much value is placed on scoring as usual. But if you look at the last 25+ years, the following players dominated the majority of the nba finals: Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Tim Duncan. Magic was a point guard. Michael Jordan is an anomaly and dominated with or without a point guard...but John Paxson and BJ Armstrong were both good playmakers. Larry Bird had Dennis Johnson who was a fantastic point guard. Kobe Bryant had not won a title without Derrick Fisher. Sure lots of people say Kobe can't win without Shaq, but it's really Fisher he can't win without. And Tim Duncan won 4 titles with Tony Parker. The one he won without Parker had Avery Johnson as their point guard. I think the casual basketball fan only see's scoring as the only stat that matters in determining valuable players, but from the aspect of managing the offense, Dennis Johnson, Derek Fisher, Avery Johnson, and John Paxson are all great point guards. Even for the two asterisk Rockets titles in the 90s, you can't say they would have won without the efforts of Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell.
You are changing your argument from the most important position to an important position. Or do you want to argue that Armstrong, Paxson, Johnson, Fisher and Johnson were the most important player on that team (or even second most important player). I am not arguing that the PG position is the least important position. I am agruing that the Center position has been more important in the history of the league. A scrub as PG makes winning a championship difficult, but having a scrub as center makes it even more difficult. Why do you not mention Hakeem and Shaq, there are 6 championships and 5 final MVPs between them. They were pretty important during their championships. And I am sorry but: Fisher??? You believe Fisher was more important during the Laker championships than Shaq, and the 2 headed beast Gasol/Bynum? I agree that most casual fans care to much about scoring, but you make the mistake to discount the importance of a dominant center/rim protector has on the defense, or how much easier a offense is when there is a low post scoring thread. A trully dominant big man makes defense so much easier for the entire team It has much more influence than a dominant pg (you can avoid the pg, but in order to get easy shots you have to get past the center). Just look at what Hibbert did at the beginning of the year, and he is not even a good Center. You seem to believe that those pg you mention were so great, but those were not even one of the 2 best players on their team. How many championship team do you know were the center was of a lesser level than the pg's you mentioned? That fact that you call it asterisk titles sas a lot. They may not have won both championship without those 2 players, but they would not have made the play offs without Hakeem. Again I am not arguing that the pg position is not important just not as important as a great center.
1. Dwight Howard doesn't have T-Rex arms. He has one of the best wingspans in the entire league. Dwight is 6'10 (w/ shoes) with a 7'4.5 wingpsan Davis is 6'10.5 (w/ shoes) with a 7'5.5 wingpsan As you can tell from these numbers, Dwight has a 6.5 inch bigger wingspan than his own height, while Davis has a 7 inch bigger wingspan than his height. Almost identical length 2. Anthony Davis is not a true center. And he probably won't be in the future. His body/frame is best suited to play the PF.
The non-stretch 4 is no longer viable on a championship contender. So if you are a 4 or 5 that can't shoot and are the 1 or 2 option. That's a problem. Even big bear Marc Gasol can shoot a jumper with ease. Think about that.
It comes down to the SG position vs the Center position. To me it's definitely the SG position. Harden is the sole legit all NBA player from the SG's today and that says it all. After him, you're talking about players like Demar DeRozan, Klay Thompson etc. who wouldn't get a mention in the 90's. That or washed up players like Wade or Kobe. The Center position has that much more depth and all NBA players. Howard, Noah, Gasol all have legit cases to be all NBA players, not to mention guys like Duncan, LMA etc who are not true centers but play several minutes at the C position.
Metaphorically you are already in default. Having a scarce commodity is more similar to having real gold. Having some of a plentiful commodity mistakenly believed to be rare is akin to having fool's gold - probably a small scoring PG in today's NBA, or arguably an athletic SF. Jeremy & Chandler I'm looking at you.
There's also quite a lot of new talent at the C. A lot of young studs - Drummond (21), Cousins (24), Vucevic (23), Embiid (20), Valanciunas (22), Henson (23), Kanter (22).
I consider this the opposite--encouraging rather than worrisome. This should mean we have an easier time finding upgrades to our weak positions, as opposed to having to pay an inheritance for the rare commodity. It may not play out like this, but "chances are" that we can upgrade in our position at less cost than someone of the opposite position (strong PG & PF, but weak SG & C).
Easily shooting guard. It was once the deepest position. PG is now deeper than it has ever been tier 3 on down. Center has actually teetered back up a bit IMO. There is still a massive lack of tier 1 centers compared to the 90's, but 5 years ago the position was much weaker. Now we have serviceable and promising guys that can actually contribute, like Valanciunas, Gortat, Asik, Sanders (when healthy), Hawes, Oberto, Varejao (when healthy), Kanter, Pekovic, etc... the position wasn't nearly this deep when Yao was playing.
Good god, Fabricio Oberto? NBA scrub who has been out of the league for 4 years? Might as well toss in Jan Vesely while you're at it.
The point was, the top player at the weakest position might not amount to very much. Being number one in a low quality pool does not mean as much as being the best in a highly competitive pool. Some fans like to tout our having the top players of two positions. But are they top 5 players in the league? Like a poster said, there are only two positions: "cornerstone" and "role player." What matters is whether your cornerstones are real gold or fool's gold.
Point-guard: Very strong Shooting-guard: Weak Small-forward: Extremely top-heavy Power-forward: Tons of decent/mediocre guys Center: Weak
After harden... SGs are awful. After Dwight... There are good players. Noah, gasol, cousins etc. SG is a joke in the nba right now. But there are a ton of shoot first pgs and speedy sfs all over the league.
Sg I remember The Rockets dont have those to worry about. (Harden & Dwight) Well lets see how the season will start
Interesting topic. Put a little thought into this and broke down the top ten bigs and wings and top 5 points from each era. I used the 2002-03 as the last year for early to mid 2000's since I wanted to avoid having players appearing in multiple lists. Top 10 Bigs: Than and now: 1) Shaquille O'Neal vs Dwight Howard 2) Tim Duncan vs LaMarcus Aldridge 3) Kevin Garnett vs Blake Griffin 4) Chris Webber vs Marc Gasol 5) Dirk Nowitzki vs Kevin Love 6) Jermaine O'Neal vs Al Jefferson 7) Ben Wallace vs Anthony Davis 8) Amar'e Stoudemire vs Joakim Noah 9) Yao Ming vs Chris Bosh 10) Pau Gasol vs DaMarcus Cousins What jumps out at me is the discrepancy at the top. The top 5 guys back than are all future HOFers (maybe not Webber). While the current top 5 still have time left in their career, you can't say any one of them are in as of now like you could with guys like LeBron and even Durant to an extent. The back end looks a little better now, but it was so top heavy back than that I would give the considerable edge to early-mid 2000s. Top 10 Wings: than and now 1) Kobe Bryant vs LeBron James 2) Tracy McGrady vs Kevin Durant 3) Paul Pierce vs Carmelo Anthony 4) Vince Carter vs James Harden 5) Ray Allen vs Paul George 6) Jerry Stackhouse vs DeMar DeRozan 7) Antawn Jamison vs Monta Ellis 8) Jamal Mashburn vs Kawhi Leonard 9) Glenn Robinson vs Klay Thompson 10) Jalen Rose vs Dwayne Wade This one is real close. Your top half of the list is about as even as it gets. I even love the similarities in the rankings with all around guys at the top (Kobe v LeBron), scoring champs at #2 (McGrady vs Durant) and poor defenders at #4 (Carter vs Harden). I like the bottom half of the current crop more so than before so I would give a slight edge to the current group. Top 5 Points: than and now 1) Jason Kidd vs Chris Paul 2) Allen Iverson vs Russell Westbrook 3) Steve Francis vs Tony Parker 4) Gary Payton vs Stephen Curry 5) Stephon Marbury vs John Wall Another close call, but I would go with the current crop. I didn't rank Rose since he has been out the past 2 seasons, but if he returns to 75% of the player he was than he would certainty be in the discussion. Really like my matchup at 2 which features 2 of the biggest score 1st PGs ever. Overall I think this confirms what most already knew. The bigs back than where considerably better and while I gave the edge to today's group for wings and points, the argument can go either way. Even if you give today's guys the edge at wing and point, the discrepancy at the big positions is too much and I would say that the players from the early to mid 2000s where better than today's guys.
