1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Minnesota's decision] Ricky Davis or Steve Francis?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Luckyazn, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Luckyazn

    Luckyazn Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,375
    Likes Received:
    68
    link

    .....The Wolves could have packaged Szczerbiak with defensive specialist Trenton Hassell to put Orlando's Francis alongside KG, but Davis comes at a much more reasonable price ... along with a center (Mark Blount) whom Minnesota was already chasing.



    Francis/KG combo would have been better IMO
     
  2. wakkoman

    wakkoman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    80
    Definetly Francis and KG

    Although it would still be KG's team, Francis would thrive there because it would just be him and KG

    Francis would go back up to

    20+ ppg
    5-6 rpg
    5-6 apg
     
  3. A-Train

    A-Train Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    38
    good to see that Minnesota is practicing such good fiscal responsibility after almost a decade of surrounding Garnett with mediocre talent.

    On a side note, I can't believe that Garnett is turning 30 this May...time flies...
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,710
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    I addressed this in the Steve Francis thread, I don't know what Minnesota thinks they are gonna get better than steve. they basically have to wait for a team to give up on a player like Ray Allen, Micheal Redd, or other guards below franchise status, and I just don't see anyone coming up.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,061
    Likes Received:
    13,408
    I think Francis would have been easily the better call. Of course, I probably wouldn't take Ricky Davis for free.
     
  6. foodworld

    foodworld Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    4
    ...and I would pay to have Steve "I'm gonna kill your Franchise" off my team.
     
  7. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
    Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    Steve has never killed any franchise.
     
  8. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,260
    Likes Received:
    12,960
    What exactly is Minnesota's cap situation, though. If this trade enables them to get under the cap and sign someone, that is obviously better. Somehow, I doubt that's the case, though, so I probably would have chosen Francis as well.
     
  9. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    9,646
    Likes Received:
    218
    this post deserves a :rolleyes:
     
  10. New Jack

    New Jack Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2000
    Messages:
    2,790
    Likes Received:
    115
    I guess I'm in the minority that thinks the Wolves made the right move.

    Davis/Blount/Hassell > Francis

    Blount and Hassell are 2 very good role players. Hassell is a great defensive player that is very efficient on offense (48.4 FG%, 40% 3Pt%). Blount is one of the better centers in the league (averaging 12.4 ppg).

    Davis is taller, younger, cheaper, with less wear and tear on his body that gives you about the same production as the second option (20/5/5) that it takes Francis to produce as a first option.
     
  11. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    Francis won't do it for KG, he needs a bona fide superstar next to him to even have a shot at a ring before time runs out (which it is, he won't be at the current level for more than another 3 seasons or so).

    Francis & KG would be just like Marbury & KG: fun to watch, can't compete in the playoffs, perennial first-round-and-out team.

    In this case, the Wolves made a smart move, they wouldn't be much better with Steve than Ricky D at the two, if anything, Ricky Davis gives them the requisite size at that position, while with Stevie they would be facing the same dilemma over and over again as to whether to play Stevie at the 1 or the 2, and in either case he isn't a perfect fit...
     
  12. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    12,648
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    I'm a huge Francis fan but I can recognize the proper move when I see it and I agree with New Jack.

    Davis is 20 PPG scorer making $6 M a year. The package they received along with Davis was pretty decent and should provide some depth.

    Francis is the better player but Davis is younger and much more affordable.
     
  13. A-Train

    A-Train Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    38
    I'm guessing that the T-Wolves wanted Dwight Howard thrown in and Orlando laughed at them...
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,710
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    I think Steve is a better fit with Howard anyway, I'm happy he stayed in Orlando. Howard and steve have a very good on-court relationship.
     
  15. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 1999
    Messages:
    9,302
    Likes Received:
    544
    I'm not really sure which decision would have been better at this point but it certainly would have been interesting to see Steve on a team where he is unquestionably second fiddle.
     
  16. surrender

    surrender Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,340
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dwight Howard is going to be an absolute monster in a couple of years. A healthy Orlando team with Francis and Nelson in the backcourt, Howard up front and Grant Hill at the 3 could be dangerous, but it's not likely to happen :(
     
  17. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    While i think SF with Garnett would be much more exciting, I agree with New Jack's opinion that th wolves made the correct decision. This is an Excellent post and analysis of the trade, which i totally agree with.

    While im sure howard and steve have a great relationship, I dont think the SF/Howard fit is really that good for Howard. Already In his short time in the league murmurs and complaints about Howard not getting enuf touches and shots have been heard often. In 42 games this year, Howard has avg ONLY 10 shot attempts a game with a 52% shooting! And in only 3 of those games has he had 15 or more shot attempts in any single game. 3 out of 42! While its true the kid needs more refinement on his offensive game, I think he has enuf to warrant atleast 11-14 shots a game, especially considering he grabs nearly 4 offensive boards a game. Howard's offensive game would explode if he were playing with nash or kidd... but then again who wouldnt.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,710
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    before I get into this debate, I'm gonna ask do you actually watch games? but I'll just say this, howard is a twenty year old sophomore player who has developed some skills but his game is still based mostly on athleticism.
     
  19. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    I've only watch a handful of magic games, prolly 8 to 10 games. And while I would definately agree with you that Howards game is based mostly on athleticism... I dont believe the question of whether he gets enuf touches/shots is much of a debate. That is not to say I think SF3 is bad for him, but rather that the situation could be pronouncely better.
    Again it is not my opinion that he should avg 15-18 shots a game but rather 12-15 a game considering he creates alot of his own shot from Offensive rebounding.

    So lets compare Howard with other recent young PF's like himself. While It is true Howard's game is maturing and unrefined and is still very young a quick look at the stats of his fellow contemparies who have entered the leauge such as Amare, kenyon Martin, Chris Bosh & ofakor shows a noticeable discrepancy in the first few years.

    Lets compare their stats in their first few years.

    Amare w/Marbury as a rookie avg 10.1 fga 6 fta 31 min 47%
    2nd year w/JJohnson avg 15.7 fga 8 fta 37 min 47%
    In his 3rd year with Nash 16.7 fga 10 fta 36min, 56%

    (obvious increase w/o Marbury, who is like francis, tho may also b attributed to Amare's leap in ability from year 1 to 2, however many still argued in year 3 Amare could only dunk. had no post moves and had just started devloping a 15ft)

    Kmart avg 11.4 fga 45% 3fta 33min w/2 OFRB
    2nd year 13.2 fga 46% 4fta 34min w/1.5 OFRB
    3rd year 14.1 fga 47% 5fta 34min w/2 offensive rb

    (A quick look at his first 3 season with Kidd shows steady increase in fga and a healthy # of shots despite sub 50 fg % and limited OFRB. Note in his last two season (not shown) w/denver and w/out kidd he's avgs 13 and 11 fga per.)


    Bosh avg 9.5 fga 46% 4fta 33min 2.5 OFRB
    2nd year 12.4 fga 47% 7fta 37min 2.4 OFRB
    3rd year 15.6 fga 50% 8fta 38min 3.0 OFRB

    (modest attmpts in rookie yr, follow by big increases in 2nd and 3rd year... modest OFRB yr 1 & 2)


    Okafor avg 13.7 fga 45% 5fta 36min 4.0 OFRB
    2nd year 12.2 fga 41% 5fta 33min 3.6 OFRB (26games)

    (Largest # of FGA of the 5 along with the largest # of OFRB. This may be attributed to him being the most developed and mature of the 5 coming out. Large FGA may also be attr to playing w/Brevin knight)


    Howard avg 8.3 fga 52% 5fta 33min 3.5 OFRB
    2nd year 10.5 fga 52% 7fta 37min 3.6 OFRB

    (lowest fga of the Four in the 1st and 2nd year, despite having the Highest fg% His 52% avg is by far the highest of the 5 and is second only to Okafor in Offensive Rebounding.)


    All these players avg more shots in their rookie year & 2nd year. With the exeption of Okafor they all were 20 yrs or younger entering their rookie year, avged less offesive rbounds than Howard (putback attpts), and play the same or less minutes. Furthermore ALL of them are relatively the same skill maturity level as rookies, relying mostly if not all on their Athleticism rather than skill. Amare, Howard, Okafor, Martin and Bosh are eerily similar in thier first year, as all had little refined offensive moves, with Okafor being the most refine and Amare and Howard being the least.

    Again I'm a fan of both Howard and Francis and I think they do have some good chemistry, but I think its obvious Howard's game and offensive maturity could use more touches and shots. The stats seem to bear me out and In the games I've watch, I've seen Howard go a good 5-8 minutes w/o touching the ball, though admittedy the number of games I've watch is limited.
     
    #19 room4rentsf, Jan 31, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2006
  20. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    9,032
    Likes Received:
    1,969
    Davis will score 20 a game without taking the ball out of KG's hands as much. He was the better fit for Minny.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now