Actually, the logic is on-point. That's why your rebuttal needed many disclaimers and omissions. Fact is, there hasn't been a 7-footer in league history who wasn't considered a big, even moreso one that was listed as a big and guarded bigs their entire career. Specifically regarding Magic and Bird (especially Magic).... they both had highly versatile skillsets. Magic could play any position and Bird was listed as a PF his first 5 seasons. Along with lights-out shooting, Larry could post-up, and pass like a guard. I really just found it hilarious that someone could struggle so hard considering Dirk a "big" given all the facts about him and his career.
1. Tim Duncan 2. Shaq 3. Karl Malone 4. Hakeem 5. David Robinson 6. Kevin Garnett 7. Patrick Ewing 8. Charles Barkley 9. Alonzo Mourning 10. Chris Webber 11. Rasheed Wallace 12. Shawn Kemp I sort of think Blake Griffin and Anthony Davis will pass up at least Charles Barkley on this list by the time they are done though.
Bird actually had pretty good handles and was a very good passer. I actually left Dirk off my list because I sort of see him as a SF playing the PF position.
putting Sabonis in the same group with Fizer, Beasley and others is behind comprehension. Sabonis was still the best after injury. His PER and efficiency was much above average,
I like your order there at the start. I'll just rank them best to worst (in my opinion). I don't include Anthony Davis or such, only players who were good for a decade or so. Shaq Duncan Dream Barkley Robinson Dirk Garnett Dwight Karl Malone Webber Pau Gasol Blake Amar'e Ewing (his prime was ~25 years ago, though. So 'past 25 years' ranking is a bit unfortunate for him) Alonzo That's 15. After Webber it got murky, though.
Some people don't consider longevity. That would always make Kareem the best big man ever. Some people focus on skills only. Dream is certainly better than Duncan in all facets of the game except passing and ability to excel to different systems. That said, guys like Dream are the definition of the system, and equally excel with different arrays of role players. The '86 Rockets and '94 Rockets are vastly different teams. And Hakeem was still the best player on the court. '86 Akeem destroyed the defending champion Magic and Kareem Lakers in four games straight...averaging > 30 ppg while also being the best defender on the court. I actually don't see any Duncan team beating that '86 Lakers team in such dominating fashion. Thus, I really don't see any SAS team beating the Hakeem Rockets.
Having watched their games, if you are going to put Malone in tier 1, you have to put Ewing and Robinson there too. Go back and look at film of how mobile and dominant those two guys were. This is backed up by the great stats they put up too. Having watched them both play, prime Ewing wasn't as good as Hakeem but he was close. Hence one level below.
Seems like Yao is overrated, but this is a Rockets website. When I rank, I usually think of them at their peak. I would not put Yao close to Webber or Mourning. Actually, going by my peak premise, I would put McDyess and Wallace above Yao. Yeah, Wallace might not have been as determined as Yao on the boards, but he was a go-to guy you could not deny. Yao could just be fronted. Also, Yao was terrible on pick-and-roll defense. Great guy though.
Some put Dwight in Tier 2 and Yao contained Dwight and dominated him in most of the games in Dwight's prime For that alone he should belong to Tier 2 and a tad above Dwight.... Dwight being in the Leastern Conference Final does not do it for me.
Honestly, I never really liked Yao's game. He's a great person, but his physical limitations (which includes clumsiness) were evident and very frustrating. He's overall not much better than Dwight. Maybe the best shooting Center ever though, top 5 minimum. Props to him for that.
Shocked how many put Shaq or TD above Hakeem. Two words - free throws. Shaq and TD are simply liabilities in the closing minutes of a tight game, whereas Hakeem would have you covered. But I agree with GOAT tier being those three. Btw, I don't think there's enough respect given to Pau Gasol. Kobe doesn't have 5 rings without Pau.
LOL You will come to appreciate a big guy like Yao who can make 80 or 85% of his Free throws in the clutch and deep in the playoffs.
Here we go Dream Shaq Duncan Robinson Garnett Dirk Barkley Ewing Malone Rodman Mourning Kemp Pau Deke Dwight Bosh Daugherty Webber A. Davis Aldridge Just did a top 20. Left off most of the modern guys - Aldridge has been around long enough to sneak on to the bottom of the list, and Anthony Davis looks like he will climb as the years go on. Chris Webber was tough to place. For me he is a bit of a vanishing act when it matters, so ranked him lower, despite his great skill + production.
When did Yao go deep in the playoffs? You've got to GO deep in the playoffs before you can shoot 80-85% of your FTs there...
If you are going off accomplishments(titles) then I can see Duncan and Shaq above Hakeem, but then Malone has no business there. If you go off straight talent and dominance then at best you are looking at a three way tie with Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan with Malone behind them.
Yeah that is a hypothesis, you got have a healthy co star and more competent role players to do so first. Just do not dissect everything one says because that argument is not going to see another tomorrow.
TD & The Dream, IMHO they are on the same pedestal, Hakeem has higher peak & more dominant 2 way player who won all the way, while TD has better longevity & arguably a better leader who has won more hardwares which matter, can't go wrong putting either over another. Shaq, though i agree that he is in conversation alongside TD & The Dream, i think he is slightly below them, that he always needs a great sidekick or even better team mate to win it all. His potential is above Hakeem and IMHO much higher than TD -a human should not be 7'1" bare footed & weighing 300+ lbs yet that agile & athletic with such great hand eye coordination, he just didn't work hard enough to realize it.
