Maybe you should just accept that you are biased because you simply don't like Harden so we can be done with this foolish discussion. Of course turnovers and missed shots hurt the team Of course lazy effort hurts the team Doesn't change the fact that Harden is still, despite those negatives, an overwhelming positive on a basketball court, while much of the rest of the team, is not.
Do you believe that misses from long range that lead to long rebounds increase the chance of an opponent to start a fast break opportunity? Do you believe that a turnover(from an errand pass or mishandle of the ball) increases the chance of a an opponent to start a fast break opportunity. Just because I post common sense possibilities without explicit data from all the game logs of the season doesn't mean it should be out right dismissed. Do you really need to tally up this year's game log to show you that turnovers lead to fast break opportunities? Really? Whenever a commentator states such common sense statements, do you yell at the TV screen asking them where is the analytical data to prove the sentiment?
Oh really, because it seems like you were quite literally debating against those notions with me. BTW, Harden is a net -.8 on the court. Dwight is actually a net positive on the court. Go figure. I know, players surrounding them matter. But I guess playing SamFisher's game, I have put forth more evidence that Harden is a negative to the team than you have that Harden is a positive.
No, I am debating your absurd notion that Harden is somehow bad for this team. You can play whatever games you want, but when you say something stupid, people are going to call you out on it.
But that big of a jump in points is only possible if you take the stance that EVERY SINGLE extra turnovers/missed 3 this season by Harden are leading to automatic points. So even if you assume EVERY SINGLE time his 0.5 extra turnover in a game is a fast break 3 pointer that is made 100% of the time that's 1.5 points extra per game. Let's just round his 0.8 extra 3 pointers missed per game this season up to 1 and let's assume EVERY SINGLE time that extra missed 3 leads to a long range rebound and a 3 pointer made 100% of the time that's 3 extra points per game. Total of a max of 4.5 extra points and that's only if you irrationally believe teams are turning 100% of those extra opportunities into transition made 3s. Factor in most transition shots are 2 pointers and that absolutely no teams convert anywhere close to 100% of those extra opportunities on us and the number gets small pretty quick. Smaller than you are assuming. Even further, were you to do the same exercise with other high usage guys and compare the results I bet you wouldn't find a very big difference between most guys and Harden. Look I agree that these extra misses and turnovers are playing a role in our problem this year. Just like his diminished defense. But they are smaller roles than people are making them out to be. Everyone shares blame in what's happened this season. No one has really improved on last season. Injuries, early season minutes restrictions, suspensions and poorer outside shooting and overall play by just about every one is all playing a part.
Why is there only a focus on Harden's misses or turnovers? Harden takes 7.9 of our 31.3 three point attempts per game. Harden has 4.5 of our 15.5 turnovers per game. Are Harden's the only one's that matter? Do they magically have more of an impact than the others?
Intuitively, it sounds like a plausible argument. Empirically - is it actually true? How much does it increase the risk of a fast break? (Obviously, on Saturday - the answer was 0.0%...but over time the answer may differ?) Is it worth the statistical tradeoff vs. the higher points per shot on most 3 point shots? Are their lineups or other reasons that make it more or less prone for this to happen? How does Golden State maintain one of the better transition defenses in the NBA yet launch zillions of 3 point shots? etc ad nauseum. Let me know when you get to these, these are all questions you would be asking if you were interested in this point rather than just the standard "blah blah harden sucks" stuff.
Wow, so there have been many days that Harden lost the fanbase. But this is the biggest stage and the biggest letdown. I think he's done. In Houston. He's not an alpha but he cannot adjust his game to play with another alpha.
lost the city, yeah, but we can't get equal value in trade. we're stuck with harden/MDA until the end of harden's contract. after that i think we part ways.
We had a better season than predicted. I didn't buy in to Hardin/D'Antoni for this season, yet we had great success. I'd prefer to look to future rather than moan about what could have been. We still have a great team core next year.
I really hope this thread doesn't keep popping up year after year. Trying to look on the bright side: he's just now entering his prime. Hopefully he figures it out.
Honestly, I understand the disappointment and Harden sucked hard tonight, no excuses for him, but man, honestly some people here don't deserve Harden. You know when he leaves, what other big FA is coming here? We going to build through the draft? ****, we'll be lucky to be stuck at perpetual 9th seed again when he bails. I am not defending Harden's performance tonight, but Harden is still my guy, and I'm glad we have him
The question should be, "Does Harden deserve us hardcore Rockets fans?" I was more proud of the 2009 team than of this team. That team lost TMac, then Mutombo, then Yao, and still took the Lakers to seven games.
Not going to say anything bad about the 09 team. I just think Harden has done enough to not get the hate he's getting, but I understand it's mainly reactionary, and he played like **** tonight, but its still hard reading Rockets fans calling to trade Harden. I just should learn to not come to the boards after a bad loss.
The answer to your question is no, James Harden does not deserve fans who question the fabric of his morality after every postseason loss. But hey...do you. Buy tickets next year and boo him ad nauseam. Maybe he'll finally demand a trade so Houston can be pure of heart again.
