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[reddit]NBA Passer Rating - Harden #2

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The_Yoyo, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    Saw this on /r/nba and I thought it was pretty interesting and wanted to get your guys' thoughts -- credit goes to reddit user - humanhighlightreel

    Move to the dish if necessary

    These were his own conclusions:

    And here is the top 10 (any position) of his stat:

    Code:
    Rk	Player	Passer Rating
    1	Ty Lawson	18.7
    2	James Harden	18.01
    3	John Wall	16.68
    4	Eric Gordon	16.66
    5	Chris Paul	16.49
    6	Russell Westbrook	16.3
    7	LeBron James	16.18
    8	Ricky Rubio	16.16
    9	Jeff Teague	15.82
    10	Dwyane Wade	15.77
    Interesting to see Harden so high up there - I mean He is significantly higher than the #3 guy John Wall (who is leading the league in assists) but he is also a decent amount below Ty Lawson. Given all this if one of Morey's original deadline targets was Lawson he must have had a similar conclusion as the original poster here that Lawson was off the charts as a passer. Despite his size after reading all this info its a bit of a let down not being able to get a deal made for him


    here is a link to the original reddit post - it has the full lists of players and imgur links to each position and the stats for each player that gave him his passer rating.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2xa5oh/final_draft_nba_passer_rating/

    What do you guys think? At least in the top 10 the biggest head scratcher to me is Eric Gordon. I dont think I've ever seen Gordon pass the ball.
     
  2. kevC

    kevC Contributing Member

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    It must have something to do with so many of his assists leading to 3 points.
     
  3. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    The only way Gordon can be that high is because it is an efficiency stat, ie. Gordon doesn't pass that much, but when he does he does a good job.
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Feels like a function of dominating the ball too much. Which I actually don't love. You can see it on the court too. Wall and Harden both like to hold onto the ball until a teammate is in scoring position whereas a guy like Manu in his prime had no problem making the early pass. When you're the best 1-on-1 player in basketball there's no reason you shouldn't be holding on to the ball, orchestrating, forcing the issue at times... but I don't think he's a "true" passer.
     
  5. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    If Harden's teammates don't brick shots , he would be leading the league in assists
     
  6. shutkip

    shutkip Member

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    Also, note that Josh Smith is the highest ranked power forward!
     
  7. tdo

    tdo Member

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    I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. Any time a team shades 2 defenders Harden's way, he has no problem making the early pass to D-Mo/Smith at the top of the key, so they can swing it to the wing for an open look. I agree he can dominate the ball a little too much, but I don't think Harden has an issue making the early pass, or only makes a pass to a teammate in scoring position.

    My biggest problem with Harden's passsing, is the accuracy of some of the passes. He can get a little wild, which in turn creates a more difficult look for his teammate. But he can't be perfect, so now we are just nitpicking.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    I do believe that there is something to this stat even with its drawback as the OP on reddit described himself.

    The reason I saw that is that of the top 10 including Gordon we know Morey has probably gone after all of the ones he had a realistic shot at with the excpetion of Teague.

    there was several rumors of Lawson this year, he did pursue Eric Gordon in free agency as well. Ricky Rubio is always brought up. other guys like Westbrook, Wall, Paul, LeBron, Wade -- those guys are rarely available to get but I am sure if any were available he would go after them (with the exception of maybe Wade now with age/injuries)

    He already nabbed Harden of course.


    This just makes me even more curious to what sort of other type of metric/stats that Morey and his team have that are exclusive or kept a secret that they've developed.
     
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Earlier in the season you could have had a point about Harden not making the "early pass,' but while I don't have stats handy to back it up, my eyeballs tell me that James has improved a lot in making quicker decisions passing the ball. Chemistry after a big turnover (again!) in personnel is clearly on the upswing, in my opinion, and one of the benefits is Harden making an earlier pass within the offense. It's partly a function of knowing the other players better and trusting them. One thing you might want to consider when it comes to Harden "holding on the the ball" is that he's waiting to draw the double team. (just saw tdo said basically the same thing).

    You don't think James is a "true passer?"
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Easy to see... Smith is a great passer.
     
  11. MONON

    MONON Member

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    I really like how Smith & Brewer complement each other in the passing game. Also, I'm impressed with how Prigs is running with the 2nd unit.
     
  12. bobloblaw

    bobloblaw Contributing Member

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    By position:
    • Harden--#1
    • Smith--#1
    • Brewer--#4
    • Papanikolau--#11
     
  13. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    Very surprising that Pau is so low on the list
     
  14. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    You mean: In the team, not in the league.

     
  15. bobloblaw

    bobloblaw Contributing Member

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    No. I mean in the league. Check the position rankings in the Reddit post.
     
  16. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    One thing that annoyed me greatly during James' first two seasons as a Rocket was there were far too many plays where he would dribble up top for several seconds while the shot clock dwindled down then quickly make a pass to a teammate on the wing who would have to rush and take a contested 3. Seriously this happened a LOT.

    This year if this happens its with far more time on the clock (5 seconds as opposed to 2) or what has happened a lot more actually this season is that James will take that contested shot himself. Usually though this is in the form of a step back 3. He has matured for sure in that he understands that that play he used to make did not help the team and often resulted in a low percentage attempt. I dont know if he made that pass in fear of possibly effecting his own stats or what. I think he is far more comfortable now though and not afraid a tougher shot himself that probably isnt as tough (compared to a rushed 3 by a teammate) since he would be a bit more in rhythm and he has become so proficient with that step back. Secondly if he wants to try to create for a teammate in that manner he will start his attack earlier so the shot isnt as rushed.

    As much as Harden has improved his focus and effort on defense - I feel there is just as much growth on the offensive end. Its amazing to see that growth and there is still a lot more room for him to grow. I mean with his strength and smarts imagine him playing in the post? Learning from Hakeem? just need another guard out there that can handle the ball and throw in the entry pass properly (prigs?)
     
  17. koldlaser

    koldlaser Member

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    I would've thought Boris Diaw would be #1, not Smith in pfs passing. Interesting.
     
  18. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    It's probably a byproduct of how good the unibrow is at finishing

    wouldn't surprise me if this is created by all the 4 on 3 situations he gets due to teams doubling harden 45 feet from the basket (also our 2nd unit is one long fast break)

    Think about who he'd be passing it too on OKC, it was probably just habitual since a Durant catch and shoot is one of the most efficient shots in basketball regardless of how close his defender is
     
    #18 Aleron, Feb 27, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015

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